“He’s a real Monster Man… Sitting in his Monster Land…
Isn’t he a bit like you and me...?

With all apologies to Mr. John Lennon and Mr. Paul McCartney’s seminal classic, “Nowhere Man”, I would like to introduce my next guest. Yes, we’ve got a really big show for you, tonight, folks. A real “Monster Man” in every sense of the word. You may know him as the director behind HOUSE ON HAUNTED HILL and FEAR.COM. But did you know he was also the designer behind some of the Don Post Studio’s most infamous monster masks? Yes, you probably wore them as a tyke or maybe you wear them now, but did you know this fine young man sculpted the Captain Kirk mask that became synonymous with Michael Myers? That’s right, HALLOWEEN Michael Myers, folks. And I bet you didn’t know that as much a Monster Man as my next guest is, he is also a rocker and a roller. He’s met the Beatles, and he’s been a Beatle. George Harrison, that is, playing the shy one in Robert Zemeckis’ very first film, I WANNA HOLD YOUR HAND, conveniently out on DVD from MCA Universal this week. (How’s that for a plug?)

All right. I’m TIM Sullivan, not ED Sullivan. But I certainly can relate to my guest. Like him, monsters and rock have informed my life like inseparable twin brothers (look no further than the masthead of this column!). Like him, I grew up a monster kid, discovered rock as a teen. Made an adult career combining both. Like him, we both made potent contributions to celluloid rock and roll valentines (His, as an actor in the Beatle fan homage I WANNA HOLD YOUR HAND. Mine, as associate producer of the KISS fan homage, DETROIT ROCK CITY). Like him, I snuck backstage to meet a Beatle (Mine was McCartney. He met them all. Bastard!). Yes, isn’t he a bit like you and me?

And so, without further delay, (drum roll please)… Ladies and gentlemen, first he shocked you, now he’ll rock you! All the way from Liverpool (well, actually, the Valley)… Mr. BILL MALONE! (cue thunderous applause and little girl squeals)

You started off your film career making monster masks. How did you get into it?

When I was 14, I decided I was gonna make my own masks. I had read in “Fantastic Monsters” magazine about guys like Paul Blaisdell who made the SHE CREATURE suit. The INVASION OF THE SAUCERMEN masks. I studied Paul and figured out how to sculpt masks out of clay and make plastic molds. I’d sell them at local stores. Then, in the late 60’s, when I was 19, I got into rock and roll and left mask making behind me. Came out to LA from Michigan to put together a band. But I couldn’t find guys who weren’t on drugs long enough to show up for rehearsals, and I really couldn’t sing, so I said to myself, there’s probably better people to do this (laughs). Then, for Halloween, a friend wanted a costume of the “Pickman’s Model” monster from Rod Serling’s NIGHT GALLERY. I thought, “Okay. I’ll give it a try. Haven’t made anything in a long time.” So I sat down, made a full foam rubber suit that actually came out pretty good. At the time I was buying supplies from Don Post Studios, and Don offered me a job. I started in ‘74, and worked there till 1980. My first day was painting those cheap little Frankenstein masks. I eventually became VP and was head of designs. Probably designed 70% of the stuff that came out of there, specifically a line of masks we owned ourselves, rather than just licensing the old Universal monsters. You know, original masks like Frankenstein 2000. B Garret Theta. Old Vampire…

God, I remember seeing ads for those masks in FAMOUS MONSTERS! In fact, the first Don Post mask I ever got was Old Barnabas! You designed that?

Yeah. I had done make-up for a show with Dan Curtis called THE NORLISS TAPES, and when I saw HOUSE OF DARK SHADOWS, I thought, the way Barnabas Collins looks at the end when he’s old and decaying would be a pretty cool mask to put out. So I called up Don and said “I’m working for this mask company. Can we get a license?” And in usual Dan Curtis fashion he goes, “Argh, just go and make it. I don’t care.“ So I did. I sculpted it and we changed the name from Old Barnabas to Old Vampire. It was a very popular mask.

What would you consider a good selling mask in those days?

Well, a “bestseller” probably would sell 1200 units a year, which really is not a whole lot. The best selling mask ever, oddly, was “Tor Johnson”, which was done before I got there. To this day, I have no idea why that mask was so popular.

It even shows up in Bill Condon’s STRANGE BEHAVIOR, worn by the killer! I guess serial murderers and Don Post masks go together. After all, Michael Myers wore a Don Post Captain Kirk mask in the original HALLOWEEN, which you actually sculpted! Talk about a contribution to pop culture…

I sculpted it, yeah. I mean, it was basically clay pressed from a William Shatner life cast I did, but I reworked it to make it bigger so a person could wear it. I remember the day John Carpenter and crew came in to buy it. They wanted us to spray paint it white and spray paint the hair black. I thought, “This is kind of weird.” I had no idea what they were gonna use it for. When I finally saw HALLOWEEN, I thought it was hilarious. After it came out, we actually sold more William Shatner/Michael Myers masks than William Shatner/Captain Kirk masks!

Have you always liked monsters?

Oh, yeah. Ever since I was a little kid. What got me started was my mom, who was quite a character. When I was five or six years old, we stood out in the rain in Lansing, Michigan at the Lucan Theater waiting to see CREATURE FROM THE BLACK LAGOON in 3D. I remember spending most of the movie under the seat, peeking up every so often thru my 3D glasses. It scared the hell out of me, but ever since, I was just sucked into it.

That was 1954, and ten years later in 1964, you discovered The Beatles.

 I was just starting to get into music. I was into acts at that time like “Little” Stevie Wonder, the 12 year old genius (laughs). And I had gone to one concert, a Motown revue. I was probably the only white kid there. Then, when the Beatles came out, I was blown away. You know, to put things in context, at that time, music was, like, Frankie Avalon, Pat Boone, Bobby Vinton…

Elvis had been whisked away by the US army and rock and roll was neutered.

Yeah, it was just really bad. At the time… you look at them now, and the Beatles look very respectable… but at the time, they were considered real rebels. Something really different. I was sucked in again.

Among your friends, your Beatles story is infamous. Can you tell it again?

Well, that’s a long story, but… I had heard The Beatles were going to play in Detroit. This was September of ’64. And I was desperate to go see them, and I couldn’t get tickets, ‘cuz they were already sold out. So I conned my parents into taking me to Detroit, and I just figured one way or another, I was gonna meet these guys. My goal was, I didn’t want to just see them. I wanted to meet them. So my parents dropped me off at Olympia Stadium…

You were by yourself?

I was 16. I was by myself. My parents dropped me off outside Olympia Stadium. And I had worn one of those collarless jackets like the Beatles wore. And to also put things in perspective, nobody had long hair. Everyone had crew cuts, and I was the first kid in my city with long hair. So when I went to Detroit, there weren’t many people who looked like me. So I went to this cop, this was two blocks away from the stadium, and I said in my best British accent, “I’m in this rock and roll band that’s supposed to play before the Beatles go on, but I don’t have me pass.” And he looked at me and said, “Look, kid. Don’t go anyway near there, ‘cuz those girls will tear you apart.”

This was all unplanned? It just came out of you?

Yep, I made it all up on the spot (laughs). So the cop grabs three other cops, and they give me a police escort into Olympia Stadium. Keep in mind I’m wearing this whole Beatlesque regalia, and the girls start screaming their heads off. They don’t know who I am, but I’m getting this police escort. And I have to tell you this other part of the story, cuz it’s actually pretty funny, too. My parents are having their own adventure. They’re at this place called the Brass Rail, which was a night club. My dad had told my mom that they’re just going to see a floor show. Well, it turns out it’s a strip club! Mom was not happy. Then, she starts looking up at the ceiling, and notices that the paint is beginning to ripple. Well, the whole place burns to the ground! And my dad was going in with the Fire Department, trying to help the girls, making sure they’re all right. Mom was really pissed.

Unbelievable! I mean, this is something right out of DETROIT ROCK CITY!

Yep. And in the meantime, the cops have taken me backstage, and I’m in this big empty room with lights and a table, and then these guys walk past me… and its all four of the Beatles, walking right past me!!!! And they sit down and do a press conference right in front of me! I’m sitting there, “Oh, my God. I’ve gone to Heaven!” They had these black suits, and what stands out in my mind was that they were all wearing stage make-up. So I’m there, knowing that at any minute I’m probably going to be going to jail, and then the Beatles get up and leave. And as they’re walking out, John Lennon looked right at me, saw the cop holding my arm and said, “So, son. What are you in for?” Classic John Lennon. It was great. And then the general manager of Olympia Stadium came in, saw me and had me literally threw me out on the street. And I’m lying there with my face against the cement, I see two shoes and it’s the cop that I went up to in the first place. And he goes, “So I guess they didn’t believe you, huh?” (laughs) He took me across the street and bought me a lemonade, and as he’s leaving, he told me if I wanted to go see the show, there were scalpers out front. So I paid five dollars for a three dollar ticket, and got in and watched The Beatles perform.

Holy shit!

I was in the second balcony, and I’ll never forget it. They had these Vox amps with tubes, and there was just this line of heat going up into the air. Some chick threw a make-up compact and it nailed George Harrison right on the side of the head. Oddly enough, it was during “If I Fell”! And he went down like a sack of potatoes. I remember John went over and picked him up. They finished the rest of the concert, but the screaming was so loud, it was like standing next to a jet engine at full rev. And they could have turned out all the lights, because in those days, you could bring anything, so all the kids had flash cameras. And the bulbs were going off so fast and furious, it was constantly lit.

Wow.

So the concert’s over, I go outside, waiting for my parents, this girl asks me for my autograph. So I said sure. Well, her friend sees her getting an autograph, she comes over, and pretty soon it snowballs into about forty or fifty girls pressing me against Olympia Stadium, pulling my hair… And in the middle of this, this arm grabs me, and it’s the head of security who had thrown me out. So he arrested me for inciting a riot, and took me down to the police station.

This is all true?

All true. So, my parents showed up at Olympia Stadium. Everyone’s gone. There was some guy sweeping up. They asked him about me, and he said, “Oh, yeah. Was he the kid wearing the wig?” And my dad was like, “No! He’s not wearing a wig! That’s his hair!” So he told them I was arrested, and they came down, covered with soot, and got me out. And that, Tim, was my meeting the Beatles!

What’s really amazing, Bill, is that your life has imitated your art, and then your art has imitated your life! I mean, 14 years later after sneaking in to meet the Beatles, you actually played a Beatle in I WANNA HOLD YOUR HAND!

I know. It’s all intertwined. It’s so weird. When I was working at Don Post, I happened to know this guy named Rich Correll, and Rich was the music editor on I WANNA HOLD YOUR HAND. Apparently, they were having trouble finding someone who looked like George Harrison who could also play guitar. At that time, 1978, I looked like a cross between George and Paul stuck together, and I could play all those Beatles songs… Well, Rich pushed me to audition. So I still had that jacket from 1964, I put it on, combed my hair down, and went in and met Bob Zemeckis. He took one look at me, said, “Yeah. You’ll do.” Two days later, I wake up, it’s 1964, and I’m on the Ed Sullivan Show singing “She Loves You”.

Which led to a relationship with Zemeckis, which brought you back to monsters. Once again, from rock to shock.

Making I WANNA HOLD YOUR HAND did feel like completing a kind of cycle. Little did I know it would start another cycle when a number of years later, Gil Adler, a friend of mine, was producing TALES FROM THE CRYPT, Season 6, and suggested I do one. At that point I had directed some low budget features, SCARED TO DEATH and CREATURE, and I had worked with Gil on an episode of FREDDY’S NIGHTMARES. So I did “Only Skin Deep”.

One of my favorites, with the really grotesque woman that everybody thinks is actually wearing a mask…

…and the guy ends up cutting her face off! I ended up sculpting that mask.

Back to masks again…!

Well, Zemeckis, of course, was the executive producer, and he saw it and went around saying it was the best Crypt episode ever made. So I sent Bob a picture of us from I WANNA HOLD YOUR HAND. I hadn’t told him it was me, which he thought was hilarious. So he asked me to come in, which led to me doing more Crypt episodes, a show called “Perversion of Science”, and then in ’98, I got a call asking if I wanted to remake HOUSE ON HAUNTED HILL for him. I had always wanted to do a haunted house picture for a long time. So that was great. A really fun movie to make. And that lead to FEAR.COM.

Which is anything but light and fun!

Yeah, it may be the darkest movie ever made (laughs). FEAR.COM suffered from being rushed into production, but stylistically, the kind of films I’m interested in making are more represented by that film than anything else I’ve done. The film is really designed to just be a nightmare. I wanted from frame one for it to play like you just can’t wake up from. None of it is supposed to be real. Even the scenes that are supposed to be reality, there’s something off about it all.

You had some good rock tunes in both those films.

We used Rammstein in FEAR. Got Marilyn Manson for HOUSE. It’s funny, there was this European band, I think they were named SIN. They did this music video that looked like it could have been inserted right into FEAR.COM and it would have fit just perfect. It really amazed me at the time. Like it was in the ethos or something.

Well, look at the era you grew up in. Late 50’s, early 60’s. Famous Monsters just started publishing. The first horror films specifically being marketed to teen audiences h just started being released. Rock and roll was only a few years old... Talk about ethos.

John Lennon was once quoted as saying, “I write the bad Beatle records. Somebody else writes the good ones.” What he meant was, he felt that he was only writing down stuff that came from some place in the collective conscious. John Lennon the man wrote the bad Beatles stuff. All the rest came from somewhere else. And I believe that. Stuff just comes out of nowhere.

You obviously love music. How has that love spilled over into your films?

I think films have their own beat. Their own pace and rhythm. And I think the best films really have a mood and tone that stays with you. And to me, music is like that. That’s what I’ve been trying to put into my films. I’m a big fan of David Lynch. I think his movies have that quality. You may not even be able to make sense out of some of his films, but they have what I call an emotional sense. They make emotional logic. I’m a great believer that we’re in the motion picture business, and it’s about images. And actually the less dialogue to me, the better. Otherwise, it’s a stage play. Which is not to say dialogue isn’t important, it is. But no matter what dialogue you have, however minimal, it’s gotta be crisp. God knows whether I’ve been successful at it, but that’s what my goal is.

Would you say your films have a rock and roll attitude?

I don’t know, although my motto has always been, “Do that which is forbidden to those who are willing!”

I always felt rock and roll and monsters go hand in hand. I think rock is to music what horror is to film. They’re both the rebellious offshoot within a medium.

I never thought of it that way, but you’re right. They really both are rebel fields. Which is interesting, because both have gone mainstream. I mean, horror, fantasy and science fiction are no longer the movies that studios are ashamed of, and now, probably have generated more money than so-called “legit” movies.

Totally. Just look at the box office receipts. Eight of the top ten money makers of all time are genre films (TITANIC, STAR WARS, SHREK 2, ET, PHANTOM MENACE, SPIDERMAN, RETURN OF THE KING, SPIDERMAN 2, PASSION OF THE CHRIST, JURASSIC PARK). You could even argue 9 out of 10… I know quite a few who consider PASSION a horror film!

You know, I think there are still a lot of cool possibilities for movies. The problem with movies today is, it’s like a box. We were talking before about, “What is a movie and what isn’t?” Is it plot? Is it imagery? Is it dialogue? Right now we’re stuck in this box, this formula, that the studios say a movie has to fit in. You know, by 30 minutes you gotta have this, by 60 minutes you gotta have that. Movies can be a lot more than just those elements and those formulas. And once there becomes a more general acceptance of that, I think the genre will really open up and explode to a lot more creativity. It will be rock and roll.