Bigger idiot: Nixon or Reagan?

[Searcher]

Tough call.

Nixon on Tape: Reagan Was "Shallow" and of "Limited Mental Capacity"

Richard Nixon, say what you will of this criminally minded president, was a keen observer of politics. But he seems to have underestimated fellow Republican Ronald Reagan (or the American public). On the morning of November 17, 1971, Nixon, while meeting with National Security Adviser Henry Kissinger in the Oval Office, shared a few sharp--and negative--comments about California Governor Ronald Reagan, who had recently told Kissinger that Nixon had a "real problem" with conservatives who believed Nixon was not sufficiently hawkish on foreign policy matters.

For years, the Presidential Recordings Program of the Miller Center of Public Affairs at the University of Virginia has been transcribing and analyzing the tape recordings Nixon secretly made in the White House. Even though it's been 33 years since a disgraced Nixon left office, his tapes are still being processed by the National Archives, and the Miller Center has only recently gotten to the tape of this particular conversation. According to the newly created transcript of the meeting, both Nixon and Kissinger believed Reagan was not the brightest bulb in the GOP. Here are some key excerpts:

President Nixon: What's your evaluation or Reagan after meeting him several times now.

Kissinger: Well, I think he's a--actually I think he's a pretty decent guy.

President Nixon: Oh, decent, no question, but his brains

Kissinger: Well, his brains, are negligible. I--

President Nixon: He's really pretty shallow, Henry.

Kissinger: He's shallow. He’s got no...he's an actor. He--When he gets a line he does it very well. He said, "Hell, people are remembered not for what they do, but for what they say. Can't you find a few good lines?" [Chuckles.] That's really an actor's approach to foreign policy--to substantive....

President Nixon: I've said a lot of good things, too, you know damn well.

Kissinger: Well, that too.

Later in the 24-minute-long discussion, the two discussed the possibility of Reagan running for president:

President Nixon: Can you think though, Henry, can you think, though, that Reagan with certain forces running in the direction could be sitting right here?

Kissinger: Inconceivable.

So much for Kissinger's powers of prognostication. As they were finishing up--after discussing other matters--Nixon slammed Reagan again:

President Nixon: Back to Reagan though. It shows you how a man of limited mental capacity simply doesn't know what the Christ is going on in the foreign area. He’s got to know that on defense--doesn't he know these battles we fight and fight and fight? Goddamn it, Henry, we've been at--

Kissinger: And I told him--he said, “Why don't you fire the bureaucracy?” I said, “Because there are only so many battles we can fight. We take on the bureaucracy now, they're going to leak us to death. Name me one thing that we have done that the bureaucracy made us do.”

President Nixon: The bureaucracy has had nothing to do with anything.

Kissinger: No, no. They've made our lives harder. They've driven us crazy. But that doesn't affect him.

Shallow, negligible brains, limited mental capacity? Well, Reagan did manage to get elected twice, and he served out his two terms--a feat Nixon did not accomplish. And Kissinger happily served on Reagan's Foreign Intelligence Advisory Board.

[Luris Blear]

Regrettably, I need to sit this conversation out. I currently lack any time to agree or disagree with hating people who are different or more successful than myself. I have become far too busy living my own life in coexistence with others.

[Wrathborne]

Dont think this is a conversation I want to get into, I'm gonna sit it out too.

[koolmike]

<---loved Reagan

[pastor_ice43]

All I'll say is that since Regan was one of the best presidents this country ever saw...you may want to compare him with someone else.

[Darkgod]

Yeah reagan is always Praised, i don't kow why you would compare those two.

[luvvicsblud]

The cool thing about Regan is that for the last 20 years of his life, he really doesn't remember being president. That must suck. People were like "Hey Mister President" and he was walking around going "President? What?" But that was Nancy's dream come true, to have him finally inept in her hands.

Nixon. I think the travesty with that is that he made Ford president on the condition that he be pardoned by him right after. All Nixon endured for his crimes were jokes. He was never truly tried. Dirty politics.

[Godfatha]

Bigger idiot? Nixon.
Worst president between of two? Reagan.

[choptop2]

Did you ever notice republicans do things like this, and democrats do things this way?

What's the deal with that ?

[RIP]

Both were severely criminal. Both can rot in hell. For any good they may have done, they undid it 10 fold. Reagan is one of the WORST presidents this country elected and we are continuing to feel the brunt of his failed policies to this day.

But...I'll give both of them this...neither is as bad as the travesty of a president we have now.

Other than that...I'll stay out of the conversation. It's much too big, and picking the lesser of two evils is rarely productive. Now a discussion on war criminal Henry Kissinger? That's a worthwhile discussion.

[JerkyPuck]

Reagan sat on AIDS basically for his whole term, never introducing or supporting any legislation. Had he brought some more money for research maybe there wouldn't be such a problem now. Oh well.....you gotta get votes right?

[Darkgod]

Everyone sat on aids, cause they didn't know what the hell it was. The fact that it was called Gay Cancer first shows they had no clue. Reagan brought a lot of money into the governent, and then had Bush sr blow it on the first war. Kind of how Clinton brought a lot of money in and had it blown by Bush Jr.

[JerkyPuck]

Sure everyone sat on it....and a lot of people died. However, when you are the leader of the free world, people look to you for answers and at that time there were no drugs and very little research due to lack of funding. So yeah, I do partially blame him.

[pastor_ice43]

It's easy to blame him because he was the one in Power. Every president has had shit blamed on him that wasn't his fault, but it happens because it just so happened to be his watch at the time. People are still trying to blame the levies in N'awlins breaking on Bush...even though those Levies poor quality has been ignored since even before Bush was born. Regan had no fault in the AIDS epidemic...for the info and limited technology they had at the time...they did their best. You wanna blame a prez. for the mistakes he made..thats fine, but don't blame em for something they didn't do. Blaming Regan for AIDS being as bad as it is\was is like blaming Lincoln for the thousands of American deaths in the civil war because as some say "slavery would have eventually dwindled off itself." BS.

[WarBeast]

It's easy to blame him because he was the one in Power. Every president has had shit blamed on him that wasn't his fault, but it happens because it just so happened to be his watch at the time.

If you want to blame someone for giving the people the idea that the blame when shit goes wrong, ultimately lands at the feet of the man in charge, then it goes to President Truman... the man who said, "The Buck stops here.." ... a truth that for some reason has been forgotten... at least with Bush and the Fox pundits.

[JerkyPuck]

I most certainly do not blame Reagan for the AIDS epidemic BUT I do hold him partially responsible for never saying anything about it. Thousands of people were dying and he never even said the word AIDS. When you are running a country, you have a responsibility to those people who live in it. There was no funding, there was no research due to that lack of funding. And it was all because at that time it was the "gay" cancer and we all know how Reagan felt about gay people. It is no secret that the religious right was formed during that era.

[pastor_ice43]

If you want to blame someone for giving the people the idea that the blame when shit goes wrong, ultimately lands at the feet of the man in charge, then it goes to President Truman... the man who said, "The Buck stops here.." ... a truth that for some reason has been forgotten... at least with Bush and the Fox pundits.

No arguments there....But I always have disagreed with Truman on that issue. It's not just the presidency, in any situation when someone's "in power", blame is always easily cast to them when something goes wrong, even if there's absolutely nothing said person could have done about it.

I most certainly do not blame Reagan for the AIDS epidemic BUT I do hold him partially responsible for never saying anything about it. Thousands of people were dying and he never even said the word AIDS. When you are running a country, you have a responsibility to those people who live in it. There was no funding, there was no research due to that lack of funding. And it was all because at that time it was the "gay" cancer and we all know how Reagan felt about gay people. It is no secret that the religious right was formed during that era.

Are you kidding? Aids was no secret in the 80's...and considering that it really wasn't until the mid to late 80's that people even knew what it was...including Regan. Scientists and Doctors were calling it "gay cancer"...and Regan knew as much as they did. The president cannot comment on anything until they know what they're commenting on. Once it was discovered what AIDS really is...people knew. It also got plenty of funding once the true nature of it was discovered. You cannot fault anyone; doctors, scientists, or Regan.

[luvvicsblud]

It isn't really easy to blame anyone for anything but when someone is elected 'leader' and they a series of 'advisors' and it's supposed to be in the public's best interest & they continue to screw everything up & everyone in the process, what does anyone expect?

I do blame Regan for AIDS, he was in power & if the government should know what something is or at least provide makeshift treatment & feign help. Calling it the gay disease was just stupid.

[JerkyPuck]

Are you kidding? Aids was no secret in the 80's...and considering that it really wasn't until the mid to late 80's that people even knew what it was...including Regan. Scientists and Doctors were calling it "gay cancer"...and Regan knew as much as they did. The president cannot comment on anything until they know what they're commenting on. Once it was discovered what AIDS really is...people knew. It also got plenty of funding once the true nature of it was discovered. You cannot fault anyone; doctors, scientists, or Regan.

First of all, AIDS was around in the 70s. And maybe it wouldn't have taken until the late 80's or actually the early 90's before anyone knew anything about it had it been commented on by Reagan or anyone of power at that time. Everyone in the gay community certainly knew what it was because all of their friends were dying. No one seemed to care because at that time it was relegated to one group of people who weren't exactly accepted at that point. It was "killing all the right people" so to speak. It wasn't until AIDS crossed over into heterosexuals that anyone ever said anything. And you HAVE to comment on something like AIDS even if you don't know what it is because you have to fund the science to find that out. Those people were thrown under the bus until the 90's and there is no denying that.

[pastor_ice43]

First of all, AIDS was around in the 70s. And maybe it wouldn't have taken until the late 80's or actually the early 90's before anyone knew anything about it had it been commented on by Reagan or anyone of power at that time. Everyone in the gay community certainly knew what it was because all of their friends were dying. No one seemed to care because at that time it was relegated to one group of people who weren't exactly accepted at that point. It was "killing all the right people" so to speak. It wasn't until AIDS crossed over into heterosexuals that anyone ever said anything. And you HAVE to comment on something like AIDS even if you don't know what it is because you have to fund the science to find that out. Those people were thrown under the bus until the 90's and there is no denying that.

Oh give me a break..seriously. As soon as the epidemic hit, research was started, and as soon as the medical community knew what it was...it was spoke upon and research WITH funding immediately started on a cure. Yes, homosexuals got the brunt of the disease because when it developed there were far more homosexual males having unprotected sex then heterosexuals due to no pregnancy worries, which before aids, was the primary reason anyone used protection. Just because there were religious fanatics out there spouting the garbage about how AIDS was supposidly "gods punishment" doesn't mean you guys were thrown under the bus by the medical world, or the government. Everyone did and has been doing the best they could ever since anyone understood what this thing was.

[pastor_ice43]

It isn't really easy to blame anyone for anything but when someone is elected 'leader' and they a series of 'advisors' and it's supposed to be in the public's best interest & they continue to screw everything up & everyone in the process, what does anyone expect?

I do blame Regan for AIDS, he was in power & if the government should know what something is or at least provide makeshift treatment & feign help. Calling it the gay disease was just stupid.

Thats about the most ignorant thing you could say. I didn't realize that Regan's resume included "super doctor" who could automatically detect what the cause, reason, and cure for a BRAND NEW disease is. Believe it or not, when a new disease surfaces, discovering what it is, it's cause, how it works, and how to cure it takes time and research. Doctors don't know what it is immediately, and the president of the united states won't know until doctors know. They originally thought it was a homoesxual exclusive disease because it seemed that they were the only ones getting it...but don't sit there and try to say that the whole time it was dubbed "the gay disease" as you say, no one was really trying to figure out what it was, cause if thats what you really believe, you are sadly, sadly mistaken.

[JerkyPuck]

You honestly think research and funding was provided as soon as the epidemic began??? What book are you reading to get your info? And I'll give you a break when you realize you are wrong. It is well, and I mean WELL documented that thousands of people died before anything was done legisaltively. I'm sorry if that doesn't seem like being thrown under the bus to you, but to me it certainly is. I guess as a straight white male who doesn't have to deal with any discrimnation at all, you wouldn't understand that. And now the drug companies are raping AIDS victims by charging them more than $1,500 monthly for their medication. It's just not right and Reagan had a chance to do something about it and didn't, plain and simple.