Scientists Turn Gays Straight?

[Driden]

"The scientists and researchers at the University of Illinois have just announced that they had successfully made some fruit flies gay or homosexual with drugs and genetic alteration. They also said that they were able to turn the homosexual fruit flies back to straight with the same methods in just within a few hours.

By using drugs that effect the fruit flies’ Pheromones sensors and also by using genetic alteration treatments, the scientists and researchers were able to ” persuade ” straight male fruit flies to court another male flies instead of female.

Doctor David Featherstone, University of Illinois’ Lead Researcher said that : ” Homosexual courtship might be sort of an overreaction to sexual stimuli. It was amazing, I never thought we’d be able to do that sort of thing ( Changing sexual orientation ), because sexual orientation is supposed to be hard wired, this fundamentally changes how we think about this behavior. ”

When asked by NY Times about the possibility of changing human beings’ sexual orientation using the same methods, Featherstone said that : ” Although I am not sure my research is a big step in this direction, I think that ultimately the answer will be : Yes. After all, the goal of Neuroscience is a complete understanding of brain function. Understanding in science is typically demonstrated by the ability to control a process. The question of whether or not homosexuality should be turned on and off is not a scientific question. It is an ethical/societal dilemma. I am glad my work is stimulating the discussion earlier rather than later. History is replete with poorly thought out attempts to cure societal/behavioral illnesses that turned out, with proper perspective, to not be illnesses at all. ”


sources!

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2007-12/uoia-iff120407.php

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,316316,00.html

http://www.xuecast.com/?p=332

http://tierneylab.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/12/11/turning-homosexuality-on-and-off/?hp


-----------------

This can get 'ugly' in the gay community. For the religious it'll be more of a "I told you they were sick, they need to be fixed"

[skybrick]

If they want to turn straight good for them and if gays want to stay gay good for them. Either way it should be their choice.

[Misfit]

jesus what will booberry change his name to

[Driden]

Yeah and this can put an end to the "I didn't have a choice. I didn't pick this lifestyle" response we hear today

[steelba]

One would hope.

[Wrathborne]

Hey Booberry want to visit Illinois?:P

[Aurone]

I bet the Phelps clan is gonna jump on it saying "God gave this gift to save us".

[bravenewworld1]

Cool

[pastor_ice43]

Beddy Beddy interesting.

[BooBerry]

:freaked: It's going to be X3: The Last Stand all over again! Except with gay people and not superheroes.


And I'll turn straight only is Driden, Misfit, and Wrathborne get switched to homos
YOU GUYS ~> :cuddle: <~ SOME OTHER DUDE

[TacK]

this is mind bottling

[Knight]

'Fruit' flies...:lol:

Indeed.

[WarBeast]

For those saying that if this cure were to happen, it would make it definitely a matter of choice for gays... but I gotta wonder about that...

Would you take a shot in the arm that changes who you intrinsically are, just to make you more acceptable by society?

For example, there are those who would say that I would be more successful in life if I dressed all nice, cut my hair, and behaved in a more "normal" fashion... but I'll be damned before I'd take a pill that would change me into a person like that... primarily because I like who I am. I get shit for it sometimes, but I don't really care. In the immortal words of Zaphod Beeblebrox, "I'm a hell of a guy."

For me, a choice to change the essence of who I am is really no choice at all.

If someone is ashamed of who they are, then I suppose this kind of thing is an option, but the way I figure it, they'll hate themselves no matter what pill they take.

[Driden]

For those saying that if this cure were to happen, it would make it definitely a matter of choice for gays... but I gotta wonder about that...

Would you take a shot in the arm that changes who you intrinsically are, just to make you more acceptable by society?

For example, there are those who would say that I would be more successful in life if I dressed all nice, cut my hair, and behaved in a more "normal" fashion... but I'll be damned before I'd take a pill that would change me into a person like that... primarily because I like who I am. I get shit for it sometimes, but I don't really care. In the immortal words of Zaphod Beeblebrox, "I'm a hell of a guy."

For me, a choice to change the essence of who I am is really no choice at all.

If someone is ashamed of who they are, then I suppose this kind of thing is an option, but the way I figure it, they'll hate themselves no matter what pill they take.

You just gave an example every teenager, goth, punk, skater, rocker, weirdo, loser, gangster, thug or hippie goes through.. changing so society accepts you. its a daily part of life. Every aspect of our lives we conform to fit in and be accepted. Now unless you are rich, live on a farm or are homeless you are most likely not able to be or do what you want 24/7.

Now, consider more than half of gays pull the crying of they didn't pick that life, they didn't have a choice. well should this happen the choice is there to be what the claim to want or remain the martyr

What's different is after work and behind closed doors we become who we are.. meanwhile homosexuals want everyone to know they suck cock 24/7 and be accepted for it. What you fuck is personal so keep it personal I say.

Say I like to eat skat. Am I going to tell everyone at work I fuck my neighbor in the ass and eat her skat? then get all offended if they look at me funny if I ask if i can take a sip out of their drink?

it's not a matter of being ashamed of what you do or who you are. its a matter of common sense and knowing what to share and what not to share

[dead breed]

interesting....kinda scary though.

[King_ov_Hell]

Isn't there something more important they can spend their time on, like finding a cure for diseases.

[Joker]

Isn't there something more important they can spend their time on, like finding a cure for diseases.

Well,IF being gay is some sort of neurological problem and they can find a way to reverse it,then this may lead the way to reversing other neurological disorders,wich would be huge considering neurological disorders have been rising at a mind-boggling rate in the past 15 years-the price we pay for the convenience,I guess.

[King_ov_Hell]

S'pose.

[WarBeast]

You just gave an example every teenager, goth, punk, skater, rocker, weirdo, loser, gangster, thug or hippie goes through.. changing so society accepts you. its a daily part of life. Every aspect of our lives we conform to fit in and be accepted. Now unless you are rich, live on a farm or are homeless you are most likely not able to be or do what you want 24/7.

Now, consider more than half of gays pull the crying of they didn't pick that life, they didn't have a choice. well should this happen the choice is there to be what the claim to want or remain the martyr

What's different is after work and behind closed doors we become who we are.. meanwhile homosexuals want everyone to know they suck cock 24/7 and be accepted for it. What you fuck is personal so keep it personal I say.

Say I like to eat skat. Am I going to tell everyone at work I fuck my neighbor in the ass and eat her skat? then get all offended if they look at me funny if I ask if i can take a sip out of their drink?

it's not a matter of being ashamed of what you do or who you are. its a matter of common sense and knowing what to share and what not to share


Okay, so people out there asthetically change to conform all the time, that's a given, but they still keep what they are inside. Dress nice at work but at home they throw on a deathmetal cd, guzzle booze, cuss like a sailor, dress like a bum and watch horror flicks all day.... that's all fine and dandy... BUT this is not a question of what aspects of yourself you share with the public at large. The question here is, would you take a shot in the arm that changes you completely, not just how you dress and act in public, but changes Who You Are.

The only reason a person would do that would be if he/she hated him/herself... and as stated above, I believe people like that will most likely still find something about themselves to hate regardless.

For me it would be like taking a pill to make me hate horror movies, heavy metal and redheads with big tits.

For someone like Pastor, it would be like a shot that makes him hate Jesus.

For you, it would be like a drug that makes you hate exploitation movies or something else that's part of who you are.

In reality, many of us don't advertize all aspects of our lives that are socially questionable, but that doesn't mean that we'd want to destroy those personality traits with a shot in the ass... as I said before, even if we were given the option to do so, we would consider it a ridiculous notion.

[bravenewworld1]

Okay, so people out there asthetically change to conform all the time, that's a given, but they still keep what they are inside. Dress nice at work but at home they throw on a deathmetal cd, guzzle booze, cuss like a sailor, dress like a bum and watch horror flicks all day.... that's all fine and dandy... BUT this is not a question of what aspects of yourself you share with the public at large. The question here is, would you take a shot in the arm that changes you completely, not just how you dress and act in public, but changes Who You Are.

The only reason a person would do that would be if he/she hated him/herself... and as stated above, I believe people like that will most likely still find something about themselves to hate regardless.

For me it would be like taking a pill to make me hate horror movies, heavy metal and redheads with big tits.

For someone like Pastor, it would be like a shot that makes him hate Jesus.

For you, it would be like a drug that makes you hate exploitation movies or something else that's part of who you are.

In reality, many of us don't advertize all aspects of our lives that are socially questionable, but that doesn't mean that we'd want to destroy those personality traits with a shot in the ass... as I said before, even if we were given the option to do so, we would consider it a ridiculous notion.

Ok. I have no problem with someone for being gay, lets just get that out of the way so there is no questioning here.

I think what he was trying to say is this....
Like it or not reproduction is the core of every species on the earth and if you look at being gay from a scientific standpoint (not social or religious) it is a huge evolutionary flaw. Now, this all goes back to our very basic of life functions, but those are the same that have kept all the creatures on earth alive for XXXXX years.

Ehh, i will keep it at that now. not looking to rant.

[WarBeast]

Ok. I have no problem with someone for being gay, lets just get that out of the way so there is no questioning here.

I think what he was trying to say is this....
Like it or not reproduction is the core of every species on the earth and if you look at being gay from a scientific standpoint (not social or religious) it is a huge evolutionary flaw. Now, this all goes back to our very basic of life functions, but those are the same that have kept all the creatures on earth alive for XXXXX years.

Ehh, i will keep it at that now. not looking to rant.

That or rather than being an evolutionary flaw... perhaps it is a evolutionary defense mechanism. A defense against over-population, which can dessimate a species just as soundly, if not more, than under-population. Look at the human race... as a species, we breed like vermin and our population continues up and up and up... perhaps homosexuality is just nature's way of stemming the tide.

Either way, it's all just good ol' speculation anyway... :nod:

[bravenewworld1]

That or rather than being an evolutionary flaw... perhaps it is a evolutionary defense mechanism. A defense against over-population, which can dessimate a species just as soundly, if not more, than under-population. Look at the human race... as a species, we breed like vermin and our population continues up and up and up... perhaps homosexuality is just nature's way of stemming the tide.

Either way, it's all just good ol' speculation anyway... :nod:

Our genes dont hold us back from over population, they do not know the size of the earth, how many people can live here, how many people cant. The Over population thing is an outside factor. disease, the food chain, natural disaster, leather face, a pissed off jesus, ect.

[WarBeast]

Our genes dont hold us back from over population, they do not know the size of the earth, how many people can live here, how many people cant. The Over population thing is an outside factor. disease, the food chain, natural disaster, leather face, a pissed off jesus, ect.

I was mostly speaking from a metaphysical/philosophical/semi-comedic direction than anything else... that being said, I really don't see homosexuality impacting population/reproduction to any real extent. There will always be plenty of us breeders out here, couple that with invitro, surrogate motherhood and other scientifically assisted forms of child-bearing, I feel pretty confident that even if half the world's population turned gay, humanity would still squirt out plenty enough babies to keep the species alive and thriving.

[Knight]

This is what happens when you let jesus freaks get a hold of chemistry sets.

[Knight]

I feel pretty confident that even if half the world's population turned gay, humanity would still squirt out plenty enough babies to keep the species alive and thriving.

Heh, considering all the motherfuckers out there who don't know how to STOP reproducing. Not uncommon to see people out there with 5 or 6 kids if not more. Way I see it that would cancel out 5 'fags' automatically.

The notion that gays are a threat to the survival of the human species makes me LoL just a bit.

[bravenewworld1]

I was mostly speaking from a metaphysical/philosophical direction than anything else... that being said, I really don't see homosexuality impacting population/reproduction to any real extent. There will always be plenty of us breeders out here, couple that with invitro, surrogate motherhood and other scientifically assisted forms of child-bearing, I feel pretty confident that even if half the world's population turned gay, humanity would still squirt out plenty enough babies to keep the species alive and thriving.

Oh no i agree. I do not think that it will bring on the dark ages of mankind. But it is still a major design flaw and thats where these guys are coming from.
Again i am not against homosexuals in any means, but there are many things in our society that we are deeming as choice or a freedom when we are not really looking at the big picture of what it truly is. How many women do you think became homosexual because of molestation as a child? or rape? or a life time of disappointment's by men and father figures? I am going to go with over 50%.

[thrEE6MAfia]

pretty intresting

[Driden]

I agree with Knight a few thousand or million homosexuals will not affect the population, although the rate of people being Bi-sexual and homosexual is rising. I also understand what Warbeast is saying about a life changing shot. I say as long as this (if it ever gets released) that as long as it doesn't become mandatory I don't see a problem with it. Scientists spend crazy amount of time doing worthless research, at least this study can hopefully lead to other issues.

Consider this. If this works. We could use a different version of the shot on child molesters to stop being attracted to kids.. interested now?

[WarBeast]

Consider this. If this works. We could use a different version of the shot on child molesters to stop being attracted to kids.. interested now?


Hell man, don't need a shot in the ass to cure a child molester... a shot in the head will do just fine. :D

[RIP]

I'm not sure that child molestation is a "homosexual" issue. There is a difference between wanting to fuck other men/women and wanting to fuck children.

[Driden]

I'm not sure that child molestation is a "homosexual" issue. There is a difference between wanting to fuck other men/women and wanting to fuck children.

Obviously this conversation is beyond your reasoning. If you cannot see how this relates I don't think I can reach you. If we can manipulate what one finds attractive then we could alter what a child molester desires. a different version of this shot can change his need for children towards older women. Perhaps even with further research we could eliminate other impulses. I suppose you are still thinking inside the box and don't grasp the possibilities of what further studying can lead to.

Let me put it easier for you.

If Bob a 40 year old man likes playing with little boys aka homosexual tendencies then if he was given this shot he wouldn't molest little boys would he since he'll be attracted to females right? still with me? lol

[RIP]

It's interesting as a concept, but delving in to the world of sci-fi is getting sligtly ahead of ourselves.

[BooBerry]

What's different is after work and behind closed doors we become who we are.. meanwhile homosexuals want everyone to know they suck cock 24/7 and be accepted for it. What you fuck is personal so keep it personal I say.

Say I like to eat skat. Am I going to tell everyone at work I fuck my neighbor in the ass and eat her skat? then get all offended if they look at me funny if I ask if i can take a sip out of their drink?

it's not a matter of being ashamed of what you do or who you are. its a matter of common sense and knowing what to share and what not to share

This didn't really make sense to me. Not all gays are running around in pink tank tops and oogling frat boys on the street. As many times I've heard some fag (a stranger to me, not a friend mind you) talk about his sexual conquests with other men, I've heard just as many times from straights about their conquests with women.

On top of this, rasicts shouldn't share their racism. Religious zealots shouldn't share their beliefs. Feminists should just keep their radical mouths closed. And every sports fan should be quiet about who they root for. I mean, according to what you've concluded, this is just common sense on "knowing what to share and what not to share." Everyone in America should take some personality robbing pill then.

I'm not sure what you'd call it, but I call it being human and, even more, being American.

[BooBerry]

Let me put it easier for you.

If Bob a 40 year old man likes playing with little boys aka homosexual tendencies then if he was given this shot he wouldn't molest little boys would he since he'll be attracted to females right? still with me? lol

... Wouldn't that just make him attracted to little girls then? :scratch:

[Driden]

... Wouldn't that just make him attracted to little girls then? :scratch:

If they use the shot they have now yes, its most likely that should be the outcome but I'm talking about a different version of the shot. possibilities. Hope. beyond just what we see infront of us. But how long does this last, is there side effects etc. We probably wont see this in our lifetime

[bravenewworld1]

It's interesting as a concept, but delving in to the world of sci-fi is getting sligtly ahead of ourselves.


Actually its psychology not sci fi. and it's only ahead of people who are behind.

[thorn_man]

So let me get this straight (no pun intended).

The flies had no control over their sexual orientation, when gay or straight, until they were given the drugs.

Doesn't that basically prove that all homosexuals and heterosexuals etc are unable to change their orientation by themselves?

Ok, so now that we've established this "excuse" that gays have always been using has in fact been true all these years, they now say they may be able to use similar drugs on humans.

Is it just me or does this pretty much blow the whole idea that "god would not create a being who was unable of controlling their sin" out of the water?

I don't really understand how a couple could have drugs like these given to their children and claim it is because of their religious beliefs. If it takes 21st Century breakthroughs to overcome something you feel has been fundamentally immoral since the dawn of time, then something is a little fishy.

But at the same time, I could see myself supporting something like this. For some people it can be incredibly hard to grow up as a homosexual, and if it were as simple as having a shot in order to prevent years of pain, and/or possible physical harm from others to somone, or even possible suicide/self inflicted wounds etc., then I am all for it.

[bravenewworld1]

... Wouldn't that just make him attracted to little girls then? :scratch:

Not really. People are wired differently and one person could interpret something completely different than someone else.

Example :

Say there was a 10 year old girl who gets beat by her father every night.
10 years later she is now in relationships and she is her own person. Now had her childhood abuse not gone addressed in some way then she will probably do one of the following :

1. Become a victim and be attracted to a man who will abuse her.
2. Become the abuser as a defense and find a man who will accept it.

Now these are not the only two options, but these two are totally different reactions that are very common for people to have who have been abused as a child.
To stick to the topic, we could also add a third option and say that the childhood abuse just terrifies the person of men for life and thus never even becoming attracted to them because of such a fear.

[choptop2]

Design flaws would be abnormalities, deformity and sterility reducing an organism's chances at reproduction. Homosexuals can still have children if all their reproductive parts are working. Many methods such as In vitro fertilization.

Humans aren't going anywhere.


As for changing who you are, that's such a personal thing, up to the individual. Like Warbeast said they'd probably find something else to hate about themselves.

[dead breed]

Obviously this conversation is beyond your reasoning. If you cannot see how this relates I don't think I can reach you. If we can manipulate what one finds attractive then we could alter what a child molester desires. a different version of this shot can change his need for children towards older women. Perhaps even with further research we could eliminate other impulses. I suppose you are still thinking inside the box and don't grasp the possibilities of what further studying can lead to.

Let me put it easier for you.

If Bob a 40 year old man likes playing with little boys aka homosexual tendencies then if he was given this shot he wouldn't molest little boys would he since he'll be attracted to females right? still with me? lol

Many child molesters who molest little boys aren't homosexual, its about the feeling of power they get from it, being in control is often the turn on for them. In many cases it doesn't matter if the child is male of female. Agree?

[bravenewworld1]

Design flaws would be abnormalities, deformity and sterility reducing an organism's chances at reproduction. Homosexuals can still have children if all their reproductive parts are working. Many methods such as In vitro fertilization.


If homosexuality is a natural occurrence and no outside factors are taking place, then yes it is a "Design Flaw" for the simple reason that it (i really cannot find a better way to put this) negates the most basic of animal instincts; the procreation and survival of the creatures species.

[RIP]

Actually its psychology not sci fi. and it's only ahead of people who are behind.

:shakehead

[choptop2]

If homosexuality is a natural occurrence and no outside factors are taking place, then yes it is a "Design Flaw" for the simple reason that it (i really cannot find a better way to put this) negates the most basic of animal instincts; the procreation and survival of the creatures species.


hey time to swim in circles. If a homosexual is able and willing to reproduce, they simply can, there are many ways about it. Hell, there's probably been gay people who've had straight sex, just to have children. Homosexuality doesn't make you barren or sterile. Even Adoption provides that basic need of survival, nuturing the young so the species continues to prosper.

[Officefan]

Not really. People are wired differently and one person could interpret something completely different than someone else.

Example :

Say there was a 10 year old girl who gets beat by her father every night.
10 years later she is now in relationships and she is her own person. Now had her childhood abuse not gone addressed in some way then she will probably do one of the following :

1. Become a victim and be attracted to a man who will abuse her.
2. Become the abuser as a defense and find a man who will accept it.

Now these are not the only two options, but these two are totally different reactions that are very common for people to have who have been abused as a child.
To stick to the topic, we could also add a third option and say that the childhood abuse just terrifies the person of men for life and thus never even becoming attracted to them because of such a fear.
Wouldn't that make stopping child molesters with this "wonder drug" impossible?

Just because it can curb a specific homosexual tendency doesn't mean it can be customized to cure the legion of pedos living around the world. Being gay isn't the same as fucking a child, I'm sorry.

[Joker]

Actually its psychology not sci fi. and it's only ahead of people who are behind.

I couldnt agree more! And I hope the next administration electted see's things this way too,and starts to provide the proper funding needed for study to start reversing psychological/neurological problems.

[RIP]

I couldnt agree more! And I hope the next administration electted see's things this way too,and starts to provide the proper funding needed for study to start reversing psychological/neurological problems.

Exactly. But I don't think homosexuality is a psychological/neurological disorder that needs to be reversed. Stay on topic.

Stem-Cell research? Absolutely.

Curing homosexuality? Waste of fucking resources.

[BLACK VOMIT]

The orignial thread states that the flies were made hetero then homosexual through DRUGS in their phermone receptors. Therefore there is some sort of biological malfunction in these receptors that have an influence on homosexuality. Homosexuality is not a choice, for some confused individuals it may be, but those people must have some severe issues. Even if homosexuality can be reversed, their is no excuse for how people considered "different" get treated by the drooling mongoloids that follow our greedy and coorperate government ran media and religous institutions. I honestly wouldn't care if homosexuals converted themselves i wish there was a drug that would clense the world of the close minded, apathetic, easily entertained, selfish, materialistic easilty influenced drones that make up this country.

[steelba]

Off topic but Black Vomit...
I see your a n00b here and you list your location as Compton?!
You're not from compton...

[Knight]

WHAT?! You mean people put false information in their message board profiles? That's just crazy talk.

Next you're gonna tell me all the people on here from 'Haddonfield, IL' are liars too!

[RIP]

Yes...and Knight...where exactly is the 36th Chamber? You've got some nerve.

[bravenewworld1]

Wouldn't that make stopping child molesters with this "wonder drug" impossible?

Just because it can curb a specific homosexual tendency doesn't mean it can be customized to cure the legion of pedos living around the world. Being gay isn't the same as fucking a child, I'm sorry.


I never said it was.

[JerkyPuck]

Ok....I've been patiently watching this thread and now I must speak......

As for the research, fine....if that's how some gays want to get their jollies, fine. If they want to change how they were designed, fine. For me however, I feel like the whole project implies that there is something physiologically wrong with gay people...... ie: here's a problem...let's fix it. That, I do not agree with. I am very happy with who I am and it has molded me into one hell of a strong man. Because of my sexuality, I have had to overcome obstacles that I would never had to face if I were straight and it made me who I am now. Why would I want to open a new can of worms and all that be moot?

Someone said earlier that gays are constantly announcng their sexuality and we want everyone to know we're gay. I do agree with that to an extent. I do announce my sexuality a lot because I feel like it's a big part of who I am, so here it is....it's on the table...let;s move on. HOWEVER, I don't talk about my sex life on here. Sure, I joke with you guys, as does BooBerry, but we never go too far....or at least I don't think we do. We really don't talk about our personal lives any more than you guys do....WHICH leads me to my next point.

This research also leads me to think that it stems from heterosexual discomfort when it comes to the whole subject of homosexuality. Why try to change something that really has nothing to do with you? Is it because it makes you uncomfortable? Who is funding your research also??? The church? The government?

I am perplexed by this and really just don't get it. Sorry about the loooong post. Just had to say something.

[pastor_ice43]

For those saying that if this cure were to happen, it would make it definitely a matter of choice for gays... but I gotta wonder about that...

Would you take a shot in the arm that changes who you intrinsically are, just to make you more acceptable by society?

For example, there are those who would say that I would be more successful in life if I dressed all nice, cut my hair, and behaved in a more "normal" fashion... but I'll be damned before I'd take a pill that would change me into a person like that... primarily because I like who I am. I get shit for it sometimes, but I don't really care. In the immortal words of Zaphod Beeblebrox, "I'm a hell of a guy."

For me, a choice to change the essence of who I am is really no choice at all.

If someone is ashamed of who they are, then I suppose this kind of thing is an option, but the way I figure it, they'll hate themselves no matter what pill they take.

There's a big difference. You chose to be who you are because of your personality, something that was built and impressed upon your brain from the time you were born. Homosexuality, whether it be something that happens before or after birth, is an abnormality in the brain. it's no different then the deformations that make someone a pedophile, or makes someone like animals. The only difference is that homosexuality is between consenting adults, and thus not hurting anyone like pedophilia or bestiality is. Obviously because of that fact, it will need to be left as a choice, but make no mistake about it, if there is something out there that can turn a homosexual straight, it IS repairing that defect in the human psyche. Whether someone wants to "take the shot" so to speak will have to be left up to them (at least I hope people aren't being dragged out of there homes and having it forced upon them) but like Driden said...the excuse of "I don't choose to be this way" will no longer be a valid one.

[WarBeast]

There's a big difference. You chose to be who you are because of your personality, something that was built and impressed upon your brain from the time you were born. Homosexuality, whether it be something that happens before or after birth, is an abnormality in the brain. it's no different then the deformations that make someone a pedophile, or makes someone like animals. The only difference is that homosexuality is between consenting adults, and thus not hurting anyone like pedophilia or bestiality is. Obviously because of that fact, it will need to be left as a choice, but make no mistake about it, if there is something out there that can turn a homosexual straight, it IS repairing that defect in the human psyche. Whether someone wants to "take the shot" so to speak will have to be left up to them (at least I hope people aren't being dragged out of there homes and having it forced upon them) but like Driden said...the excuse of "I don't choose to be this way" will no longer be a valid one.

Some people call talking and listening to invisible beings that tell them how to behave a mental abnormality, like schizophrenia... you'd call it religion... would you take a shot to get rid of that sort of abnormality in yourself?

You've made it very clear that your religion is not just a choice for you, it is something that is intrinsically part of your soul... it is what you are. Would you consider it a choice for you, if all of the sudden it was considered a mental defect to believe in god and there was a pill you could take to cure that "defect", even if it makes you more socially acceptable?

There's no way in hell you would... because it is a part of who you are... it wouldn't be a choice for you. You would consider it someone trying to take away what you are... what makes you the person you are.

It would be no different for homosexuals... they are who they are and most are happy being who they are. What the hell kind of choice is it to say here's a drug to "fix" you? Many would say, "I'm happy the way I am... what is there to fix?"

[Gilly]

Scientists turning gay guys straightl...i've heard it all now, it's like they're saying being gay is wrong. If it was wrong i'm sure "God" would have sent some sort of plague to wipe them out.

[RIP]

To sum up Pastor's position.

People are born homosexual. When and if they come up with a "cure" in the form of an injection...homosexuality will become a choice.

Your logic is some of the more fucked up I've seen (no surprise there), but I will say that I am happy to see you admitting that homosexuals were born that way. (Even if you did so arrogantly liken it to a defect in the brain.) I'm also happy to see that you're staying away from the Phelpsian "aids is god's cure for fags" position. I have a hunch though that much of the anti-gay homophobe crowd, like yourself, reeaaaalllly wants there to be an injection to "cure" homosexuals if for no other reason than to get that shot themselves.

[RIP]

Scientists turning gay guys straightl...i've heard it all now, it's like they're saying being gay is wrong. If it was wrong i'm sure "God" would have sent some sort of plague to wipe them out.

There are those who believe aids is that very plague. In fact, we have a republican presidential candidate who believes that, "we need to take steps that would isolate the carriers of this plague."

and...

"It is the first time in the history of civilization in which the carriers of a genuine plague have not been isolated from the general population, and in which this deadly disease for which there is no cure is being treated as a civil rights issue instead of the true health crisis it represents."


Mike Huckabee for President ladies and Gentleman. A true American.

[RIP]

The only difference is that homosexuality is between consenting adults, and thus not hurting anyone like pedophilia or bestiality is.


Nice of you to lump homosexuality in with pedophilia and bestiality. How Rick Santorum of you.

Homosexuality is between consenting adults? Do you really want to hang your hat on that? Maybe you want to clarify your position there. You do know that there are 15 year olds who are homosexual right? And you do know that many of them are sexually active right?

[bravenewworld1]

Some people call talking and listening to invisible beings that tell them how to behave a mental abnormality, like schizophrenia... you'd call it religion... would you take a shot to get rid of that sort of abnormality in yourself?

You've made it very clear that your religion is not just a choice for you, it is something that is intrinsically part of your soul... it is what you are. Would you consider it a choice for you, if all of the sudden it was considered a mental defect to believe in god and there was a pill you could take to cure that "defect", even if it makes you more socially acceptable?

There's no way in hell you would... because it is a part of who you are... it wouldn't be a choice for you. You would consider it someone trying to take away what you are... what makes you the person you are.

It would be no different for homosexuals... they are who they are and most are happy being who they are. What the hell kind of choice is it to say here's a drug to "fix" you? Many would say, "I'm happy the way I am... what is there to fix?"

Ok, the personality thing seems to be a big one.....

A person born with muscular dystrophy...
A person born blind...
A person born deaf...

I really dont want to continue because its depressing but i hope we get the point, the list could go on for ages with minor defects, and major defects.
What do all of these have in common?
The peoples personality all revolves around their disorder or impairment.

As i said before, we as a society have come to accept things that we should not in the name of personal freedom and rights rather than, whats healthy and what is the best for us as a society.

Gays are not the bad part of our society, the bad part is that we have come to accept this without any hesitation simply to allow people to feel accepted without addressing any issues. We will never know how many people are actually born gay or how many people become gay because of past events. On top of it, gay rights activists swing both ways (HAH no pun intended), one day they will preach "its a choice" the next day they will preach "its not a choice we were made this way".
Thus making it even harder for anyone to question what is actually going on here.

Blah ive said my peace.

[RIP]

Gays are not the bad part of our society, the bad part is that we have come to accept this without any hesitation simply to allow people to feel accepted without addressing any issues.

What does this mean?

[bravenewworld1]

What does this mean?

It means that they do not affect non gays the way some people like to think they do. But to ignore that scientifically or psychologically there is something wrong here is stupid. And we have come to blindly accept that it is a choice, rather then attempting to find out whats going on.

[RIP]

I...we have come to blindly accept that it is a choice, rather then attempting to find out whats going on.

I'm not sure that's accurate. As for what's going on? It's a civil rights issue.

[BooBerry]

I don't understand how being gay is a "psychological or scientific" disorder/topic. I mean, for as long as there have been male on female relations there have been male on male ones as well. I mean, all you have to do is read a little world history and it's all over the place. Hell, it's depicted on artifacts.


And, I just noticed this. "The scientists and researchers at the University of Illinois have just announced that they had successfully made some fruit flies gay or homosexual with drugs and genetic alteration. They also said that they were able to turn the homosexual fruit flies back to straight with the same methods in just within a few hours.

By using drugs that effect the fruit flies’ Pheromones sensors and also by using genetic alteration treatments, the scientists and researchers were able to ” persuade ” straight male fruit flies to court another male flies instead of female."

So, they didn't actually make a gay fruit fly straight. They made a straight fruit fly gay. Hah, call me crazy but that's just good news for the gays and bad news for the straights ;o)

[bravenewworld1]

I'm not sure that's accurate. As for what's going on? It's a civil rights issue.

I am not saying that it should be forced on people.
If it was forced on people then yes, it would be a civil rights issue.
I am saying that our blind acceptance has lead to less understanding and less study of the topic.

[bravenewworld1]

I don't understand how being gay is a "psychological or scientific" disorder/topic. I mean, for as long as there have been male on female relations there have been male on male ones as well. I mean, all you have to do is read a little world history and it's all over the place. Hell, it's depicted on artifacts.........

So, they didn't actually make a gay fruit fly straight. They made a straight fruit fly gay. Hah, call me crazy but that's just good news for the gays and bad news for the straights ;o)

And as long as there have been people there has been psychopaths and people with handicaps. Whats your point? Because its been around historically that means that it is less valid as a psychological disorder? If anything the history of it leaves more questions than answers.

Another way you could look at the second paragraph is that external factors can play a big role.

[BooBerry]

And as long as there have been people there has been psychopaths and people with handicaps. Whats your point? Because its been around historically that means that it is less valid as a psychological disorder?

If that's the case, then would heterosexuality be a psychological disorder too? If both have been around since the beginnning of time (the point I brought up) then who is to say that one or either are psyche disorders?

As for the external factors idea, that doesn't make sense since no gay person I've ever encountered has "become" gay because of scientific experiments. If anything they "become" gay because of daddy issues or abuse. Big big differences.

[H78]

I'm all for gay rights, but what compels one dude to throw his sausage in another dude's chocolate hole is something I'll never understand.

To each their own, though.

:freaked:

[JerkyPuck]

So let me get this "straight"....

Because I am gay, I have a psychological disorder? That's rich. And you're misinformed. I love how some folks like to make up excuses for their hang ups. We ain't goin' no where. You might as well accept it. We're here, we're queer, suck our dicks.

[Max Payne]

Well lets make this simple enough...

Either having sex with the same sex is normal and more people in the world then not have it wrong, or having sex with the opposite sex is the way biological it should be done.

Either way you want to look at it, one way is the right way that evolution and biology has set up for us. And thus one would have to be consider a dis order that starts in the brain, gays get way to fucking defensive at being called out with having disorders or being told that something is wrong with them.

I dont think there is a gay that would say they chose to be gay, they would tell you it's just how they feel, its the norm to them, it obviously starts in the development from conception and sometimes childhood development can dictate this as well.

[JerkyPuck]

Well lets make this simple enough...

And thus one would have to be consider a dis order that starts in the brain, gays get way to fucking defensive at being called out with having disorders or being told that something is wrong with them.



You would too if you felt completely normal and people kept telling you that you had a disorder. As for biology, there are a lot of things on this Earth going on that God didn't "intend".....and who's to say we even KNOW what God's intentions are. Everyone runs around self righteously claiming to know what the hell God thinks about shit and nobody knows anything about God. Just because a man and a woman can reproduce does not give me a disorder in my brain. So yeah, I'm going to get defensive about it always. There is nothing wrong with me....there has never been anything wrong with me. And I don't want to fix it. I was born this way and I like the fact that I was....so I "choose" to like who I am.

[bravenewworld1]

If that's the case, then would heterosexuality be a psychological disorder too? If both have been around since the beginnning of time (the point I brought up) then who is to say that one or either are psyche disorders?


No it would not. Know why? Because ALL life as we know it relies on some form of procreation.


As for the external factors idea, that doesn't make sense since no gay person I've ever encountered has "become" gay because of scientific experiments. If anything they "become" gay because of daddy issues or abuse. Big big differences.
Thank you!
"If anything they "become" gay because of daddy issues or abuse. Big big differences"
That would be............................ AN EXTERNAL FACTOR.
That would mean, they are not born gay they are created homosexual through some kind of trauma or bad experience as a child or even adult and somewhere along the lines their brain wires got mixed up and said that this was okay to do.

[bravenewworld1]

You would too if you felt completely normal and people kept telling you that you had a disorder. As for biology, there are a lot of things on this Earth going on that God didn't "intend".....and who's to say we even KNOW what God's intentions are.

It has nothing to do with a God.
It has to do with the basic cycles of life. Homosexuality = a loss of procreation = basic life functions switched to the off mode.

[JerkyPuck]

It has nothing to do with a God.
It has to do with the basic cycles of life. Homosexuality = a loss of procreation = basic life functions switched to the off mode.

Yes I am sure the small percentage of gay men, who still by the way have ways of having children, is such a threat to procreation. Haven't you ever heard of artificial insemenation? Or surrogates? There are ways for gay people to procreate. Next argument please.

[choptop2]

Haven't you ever heard of artificial insemenation? Or surrogates? There are ways for gay people to procreate. Next argument please.

Forget that puck, I've already mentioned that to him TWICE!

[BooBerry]

Thank you!
"If anything they "become" gay because of daddy issues or abuse. Big big differences"
That would be............................ AN EXTERNAL FACTOR.
That would mean, they are not born gay they are created homosexual through some kind of trauma or bad experience as a child or even adult and somewhere along the lines their brain wires got mixed up and said that this was okay to do.

You missed two GIANT points I was making. By putting the word "become" in quotations, I meant to show you that I don't really believe in that opinion. I honestly don't believe people can be created gay, and if they can it's really rare. Millions of men were sexually abused, a lot are straight and a lot are gay. Maybe we should start saying your daddy issues made you straight?

The second point you missed in my whole four sentence reply was that IF gays are "MADE" gay by external factors, there is a big difference between childhood trauma/abuse and scientific experimentation. No child has ever been tested on and given a shot to swicth his pheromone receptors to accept male pheromones or whatever they did to the fruit flies. To even compare sexual abuse and science experiments is completely stupid in my opinion.

[Gilly]

You missed two GIANT points I was making. By putting the word "become" in quotations, I meant to show you that I don't really believe in that opinion. I honestly don't believe people can be created gay, and if they can it's really rare. Millions of men were sexually abused, a lot are straight and a lot are gay. Maybe we should start saying your daddy issues made you straight?

The second point you missed in my whole four sentence reply was that IF gays are "MADE" gay by external factors, there is a big difference between childhood trauma/abuse and scientific experimentation. No child has ever been tested on and given a shot to swicth his pheromone receptors to accept male pheromones or whatever they did to the fruit flies. To even compare sexual abuse and science experiments is completely stupid in my opinion.

Nicely put.

[BooBerry]

Nicely put.

I know. :D


Actually, I just re-read it and noticed how heated I got. Sorry everyone!

[bravenewworld1]

Yes I am sure the small percentage of gay men, who still by the way have ways of having children, is such a threat to procreation. Haven't you ever heard of artificial insemenation? Or surrogates? There are ways for gay people to procreate. Next argument please.

I am not saying it is a threat to society or nature. Our genes and biology knows nothing of "artificial insemination" or "surrogates". That argument is taking the medical progression of mankind and not the nature.
There is a huge difference.

[bravenewworld1]

You missed two GIANT points I was making. By putting the word "become" in quotations, I meant to show you that I don't really believe in that opinion. I honestly don't believe people can be created gay, and if they can it's really rare. Millions of men were sexually abused, a lot are straight and a lot are gay. Maybe we should start saying your daddy issues made you straight?

I didnt miss anything, i figured that was your meaning, but since you never came out and actually stated your position i replied to your post as it was.
And please, go back and read my other posts about how sexual abuse, physical abuse, mental abuse, and all the kinds of childhood abuse can be interpreted by the victim and how differently they can affect different people. If you do not want to take my word for it, check the APA (American Psychological Association) website. Theres hundreds of links to thousands of articles in this study.


The second point you missed in my whole four sentence reply was that IF gays are "MADE" gay by external factors, there is a big difference between childhood trauma/abuse and scientific experimentation. No child has ever been tested on and given a shot to switch his pheromone receptors to accept male pheromones or whatever they did to the fruit flies. To even compare sexual abuse and science experiments is completely stupid in my opinion.

And no i did not miss this one at all either. What i am saying is this. IF something can be made gay without changing its genealogy (because there is absolutely no evidence of a "gay gene") then for the most part, they are not born gay, there are external factors involved weather it be abuse or a pill (a drug actually tears the "born gay" idea down a bit more than abuse does).
Theres tons of things that can change our chemical and mental stability and wiring.

Check out the PBS series called "Evolution". Its a 7 part series and very good.

[choptop2]

Brave, here I go a third time. Gays can have sex with the opposite gender. Normal penal penetration, none of the science mumbo jumbo. It happens all the time. Look at All our great Senators and congress men who live lies and have families.

[thrEE6MAfia]

once gay always gay..no going back

[steelba]

Three 6 speaks from experience :nod:

[Gilly]

pwn'd

[Driden]

Yes I am sure the small percentage of gay men, who still by the way have ways of having children, is such a threat to procreation. Haven't you ever heard of artificial insemenation? Or surrogates? There are ways for gay people to procreate. Next argument please.

indulge me for a second in this fantasy. Let's say men as a whole turn all gay and women dissapear from the subject. AI requires a woman's egg does it not? Without a woman there is no children, children need their gene. gays still require a woman to procreate. thus = gays have no form of creating life without the opposite sex.

Science for years has been stated as 'playing God' in many instances from cloning, to life support, to creating artificial organs. Without Science (which in some ways isn't even ethical) homosexually is nothing more than a sexual activity that should have been kept behind closed doors like all other forms of kinky ass sex

[thrEE6MAfia]

Three 6 speaks from experience :nod:

:lol:

:mhehe:razor...i thought you wernt gonna say anything

[dead breed]

Three 6 speaks from experience :nod:

oooo dem is fightin words

[BooBerry]

indulge me for a second in this fantasy. Let's say men as a whole turn all gay and women dissapear from the subject. AI requires a woman's egg does it not? Without a woman there is no children, children need their gene. gays still require a woman to procreate. thus = gays have no form of creating life without the opposite sex.


Then we should be angry at women! :cussing:

[BooBerry]

I didnt miss anything, i figured that was your meaning, but since you never came out and actually stated your position i replied to your post as it was.
And please, go back and read my other posts about how sexual abuse, physical abuse, mental abuse, and all the kinds of childhood abuse can be interpreted by the victim and how differently they can affect different people. If you do not want to take my word for it, check the APA (American Psychological Association) website. Theres hundreds of links to thousands of articles in this study.



And no i did not miss this one at all either. What i am saying is this. IF something can be made gay without changing its genealogy (because there is absolutely no evidence of a "gay gene") then for the most part, they are not born gay, there are external factors involved weather it be abuse or a pill (a drug actually tears the "born gay" idea down a bit more than abuse does).
Theres tons of things that can change our chemical and mental stability and wiring.

Check out the PBS series called "Evolution". Its a 7 part series and very good.

Hmm, you explained yourself a little more clearer here than before, but not by much. I guess I just don't agree with your POV. To me, they may both be external factors that influence someone's sexual orientation, but they're also miles apart and can/should be seperated.

It's obviously been displayed that scientific external factors (the fruit flies) can make some straight person gay, but no one has shown that sexual abuse has made a straight person gay. Give me those 100% positive test results and then we'll talk.

[thrEE6MAfia]

oooo dem is fightin words

haha...i know im not gay..well there was that one time..:shakehead

steelbas the one who has to question his sexualiy 24/7

[JerkyPuck]

I am not saying it is a threat to society or nature. Our genes and biology knows nothing of "artificial insemination" or "surrogates". That argument is taking the medical progression of mankind and not the nature.
There is a huge difference.

Ok, but the same God or divine entity that supposedly created this "natural" procreative institution also created complex human minds with the abilities to progress. In my opinion there is nothing wrong with this type of progression....just because it may not be physicologically possible for two mwn to conceive does not mean that it isn't possible in the future. The human mind was given those compplexities for a reason. And that is perfectly natural.

[JerkyPuck]

Without Science (which in some ways isn't even ethical) homosexually is nothing more than a sexual activity that should have been kept behind closed doors like all other forms of kinky ass sex

I won't even dignify that statement with a response except to say how fucking close-minded it is.

[Cataclysm]

I guess this wonder drug that can change a fruit flies sexuality is a good thing. Maybe with this they can also develop a drug that can correct the chemical/mental imbalance people have. That causes them to have this blind hatred of a group of people, who's "activities" have no effect on them what so ever but still feel the need to talk about and come up with half assed theories and assumptions of how they are "defective."

If only...

Oh well, atleast at the moment I can get a good nights sleep knowing money and research is going to something as important as this.

[bravenewworld1]

Brave, here I go a third time. Gays can have sex with the opposite gender. Normal penal penetration, none of the science mumbo jumbo. It happens all the time. Look at All our great Senators and congress men who live lies and have families.

.....................
So a congressman lives a double life (Because there is nothing screwed up with lying to yourself and family) to further his career to adhere to society ideas that proves that ......... what?

I know there are people who can do this. So what? what the hell is your point?

[bravenewworld1]

It's obviously been displayed that scientific external factors (the fruit flies) can make some straight person gay, but no one has shown that sexual abuse has made a straight person gay. Give me those 100% positive test results and then we'll talk.

Well its really not something that can be proven simply because it cannot be tested over and over again with the same results, thus making that aspect scientifically impossible to prove, and becomes only educated theory. Not to mention, a lot of these abuse cases that psychologists write about take place when a person is young. When a person is still developing and they really have not developed any kind of sexual orientation, urges or identity. Which also means that the majority of the time, abuse does not turn someone straight from gay, it just changes their natural progression.
I know this much, there is no such thing as a gay-gene. Which for the most part means people are not born gay. I cannot offer up the psychology side of it simply because it is too broad (VERY good reading in APA though) but i can offer up the genealogy facts.

But also, "external factors (the fruit flies) " is completely wrong.
It should say "external factors (the drug)"

[bravenewworld1]

Ok, but the same God or divine entity that supposedly created this "natural" procreative institution also created complex human minds with the abilities to progress. In my opinion there is nothing wrong with this type of progression....just because it may not be physicologically possible for two mwn to conceive does not mean that it isn't possible in the future. The human mind was given those compplexities for a reason. And that is perfectly natural.

Well, i am not religious nor do i believe in any kind of divine entity. So i dont feel the urge to respond to the comment on mankind being "given" complex minds.
Interesting comment though. I have actually wanted to bring this up but never had the chance to do so until now....
There have been quite a few new species of animals that have been found to procreate by themselves. And its not even a self fertilization. Its a perfect clone of themselves. Some scientists believe that this is the sexual evolution of all animals and the male sex could be whipped out eventually. But, its still a theory and i have not read too much on it. Although what i have read and seen explains the uselessness of 2 sexes fairly well.
You could interpret this as an "evolution to gay" but in fact it is not, basically the theory says that there will be no sex drive, only the continence of bloodline.

[pastor_ice43]

Some people call talking and listening to invisible beings that tell them how to behave a mental abnormality, like schizophrenia... you'd call it religion... would you take a shot to get rid of that sort of abnormality in yourself?

Again we're talking about a choice made after birth that has nothing to do with any kind of deformation in the brain. I wasn't even a Christian till i was 18 years old, it's a choice that I make because I know it in my heart and soul, not my mind. Homosexuality is literally a problem in someones neural system...for whatever reason, their "sexual attraction" wires have been crossed. Something they can help? Probably not, but does that make it natural? Absolutely not. Like I said....leave it as a choice, but call it what it is.

You've made it very clear that your religion is not just a choice for you, it is something that is intrinsically part of your soul... it is what you are. Would you consider it a choice for you, if all of the sudden it was considered a mental defect to believe in god and there was a pill you could take to cure that "defect", even if it makes you more socially acceptable?

Again, a totally different situation. Your talking about faith, something that has nothing to do with the brain itself, and homosexuality, a sexual perversion that is a malfunction of some aspect of the brain. Would I take a pill that would cause me not to believe in god? No, cause thats not a cure, thats mind control...thats the same thing you were originally talking about...changing your personality, which as I stated before, is totally different then someone being gay. "Curing" homosexuality is not doing anything but fixing the defect in the brain. Aside from that in any "grand scheme of things" whether it be evolution, or creationism, homosexuality is a flaw. Against most religions, and against the prime purpose of life and evolution. Even most evolutionists still believe that some sort of higher being had a hand in our existence.

There's no way in hell you would... because it is a part of who you are... it wouldn't be a choice for you. You would consider it someone trying to take away what you are... what makes you the person you are.

Your right, since I've become a Christian, it is a big part of who I am. My sexual orientation on the other hand, is not. I like girls because I'm attracted to them. It's not even second though. I'm attracted to breasts, facial features, and other parts of a female anatomy, and thats how it's supposed to be. No matter how you look at it, guys are suppose to like girls. There's no doubt in my mind that most gays honestly feel the same way about the same sex for the same reasons I stated above, however, thats because of a problem in their brains. As I stated, whether you look at it from an evolutionary standpoint, or a religious one, thats the way it's suppose to be. It's how life continues. I'm not a great person or anything like that because I'm straight, I'm straight because thats how I am...because my wiring is correct. A homosexual's is not.

It would be no different for homosexuals... they are who they are and most are happy being who they are. What the hell kind of choice is it to say here's a drug to "fix" you? Many would say, "I'm happy the way I am... what is there to fix?"

It is different because a homosexual isn't one by choice. They are so because of a defect, something that now possibly can be fixed. Again, no one is talking about forcing it on anyone. If most do end up saying "I'm happy with the way I am" then thats what they say....My point is, it's still a defect no matter how you look at it...whether you chose to get it fixed or not.


People are born homosexual. When and if they come up with a "cure" in the form of an injection...homosexuality will become a choice.

And??

Your logic is some of the more fucked up I've seen (no surprise there), but I will say that I am happy to see you admitting that homosexuals were born that way.
(Even if you did so arrogantly liken it to a defect in the brain.)

It has nothing to do with arrogants...thats exactly what it is. Being born a certain way doesn't make it natural or normal. A crack baby is born addicted to crack...is it natural just because "they were born that way". There are some people out there who choose to live a gay lifestyle, however yes, for the most part it people are born that way...not because thats just how some people are born, or because it's suppose to be that way, but because it is a problem with the neurological system. Homosexuals want to be accepted and want people to realize they're born that way and it's not a choice they make cause they are just "attracted to the same sex"..fine, I agree with that. But take everything with it.....they have to accept that they're "lifestyle" that they live because they can't help it is a cross in their wiring that like I said, is no different then the flaw that attracts grown adults to children or to animals.

I'm also happy to see that you're staying away from the Phelpsian "aids is god's cure for fags" position.

Anyone who honestly believes that is ignorant. Plain and Simple.

I have a hunch though that much of the anti-gay homophobe crowd, like yourself, reeaaaalllly wants there to be an injection to "cure" homosexuals if for no other reason than to get that shot themselves.

Well you can keep on believing your false overplayed "you only disapprove of homosexuality cause you are one" thought line. I'm very happily engaged to a beautiful girl because the sexual part of my brain is in working order.


It seems to me that people like you can't be satisfied. You want equal rights for homosexuals...you want people to accept they're born that way....you want this that and the other...which is fine. However, the minute one looks at it from a logical standpoint, and calls it what it is....a disorder of the brain, you get up in arms. You gotta take the good with the band my man. No matter what stance you look at it from, religious or scientific...it's not natural. You expect everyone to just sit back and say it is cause it is and there's no explanation....and like it or not, thats not the case.

Nice of you to lump homosexuality in with pedophilia and bestiality. How Rick Santorum of you.

Homosexuality is between consenting adults? Do you really want to hang your hat on that? Maybe you want to clarify your position there. You do know that there are 15 year olds who are homosexual right? And you do know that many of them are sexually active right?

Yes, because it's a sexual perversion. And obviously what I meant is that the reason homosexuality is accepted and legal, is because unlike pedophilia, which involves children who by law cannot consent even if they want to, and bestiality involves animals that obviously cannot consent, where homosexuality is general between two people who are legally consenting.

I don't understand how being gay is a "psychological or scientific" disorder/topic. I mean, for as long as there have been male on female relations there have been male on male ones as well. I mean, all you have to do is read a little world history and it's all over the place. Hell, it's depicted on artifacts.

Whats your point? As long as there have been people on this earth, there have been people born blind, deaf, and with all other sorts of disorders. No ones saying this is a new thing, there just saying that it DOES have something to do with the wires of the brain being crossed somewhere.

If that's the case, then would heterosexuality be a psychological disorder too? If both have been around since the beginning of time (the point I brought up) then who is to say that one or either are psyche disorders?

Come on man....heterosexuality is what allows life to continue, thats how you know it's not wrong or a defect. A penis is meant to fit in a vagina, semen is meant to travel through a womans tubing to an egg, fertilize it, and create a new life. No matter how you look at it, thats what life is. Homosexuality has no logical place in life...there's no reason or benefit of it.

So let me get this "straight"....

Because I am gay, I have a psychological disorder? That's rich. And you're misinformed. I love how some folks like to make up excuses for their hang ups. We ain't goin' no where. You might as well accept it. We're here, we're queer, suck our dicks.

If you wanna tell yourself that, then thats your hang-up. Hey...if you're happy with who you are, fine, you want people to accept you like that, fine. But don't sit there and try to play homosexuality off as if there's no cause or reason. Like it or not, somewhere in your wiring involving sexual impulses and desires...something is crossed. No one's gonna force you to change or take some "magic pill" but don't act like it isn't what it is.

You would too if you felt completely normal and people kept telling you that you had a disorder

You mean like Pedo's and such? They feel normal to, but we obviously know they're not. Double Standard?

[WarBeast]

Again we're talking about a choice made after birth that has nothing to do with any kind of deformation in the brain. I wasn't even a Christian till i was 18 years old, it's a choice that I make because I know it in my heart and soul, not my mind. Homosexuality is literally a problem in someones neural system...for whatever reason, their "sexual attraction" wires have been crossed. Something they can help? Probably not, but does that make it natural? Absolutely not. Like I said....leave it as a choice, but call it what it is.



Again, a totally different situation. Your talking about faith, something that has nothing to do with the brain itself, and homosexuality, a sexual perversion that is a malfunction of some aspect of the brain. Would I take a pill that would cause me not to believe in god? No, cause thats not a cure, thats mind control...thats the same thing you were originally talking about...changing your personality, which as I stated before, is totally different then someone being gay. "Curing" homosexuality is not doing anything but fixing the defect in the brain. Aside from that in any "grand scheme of things" whether it be evolution, or creationism, homosexuality is a flaw. Against most religions, and against the prime purpose of life and evolution. Even most evolutionists still believe that some sort of higher being had a hand in our existence.



Your right, since I've become a Christian, it is a big part of who I am. My sexual orientation on the other hand, is not. I like girls because I'm attracted to them. It's not even second though. I'm attracted to breasts, facial features, and other parts of a female anatomy, and thats how it's supposed to be. No matter how you look at it, guys are suppose to like girls. There's no doubt in my mind that most gays honestly feel the same way about the same sex for the same reasons I stated above, however, thats because of a problem in their brains. As I stated, whether you look at it from an evolutionary standpoint, or a religious one, thats the way it's suppose to be. It's how life continues. I'm not a great person or anything like that because I'm straight, I'm straight because thats how I am...because my wiring is correct. A homosexual's is not.



It is different because a homosexual isn't one by choice. They are so because of a defect, something that now possibly can be fixed. Again, no one is talking about forcing it on anyone. If most do end up saying "I'm happy with the way I am" then thats what they say....My point is, it's still a defect no matter how you look at it...whether you chose to get it fixed or not.




Just because you started hearing the voice of an invisible omnipotent being in your head at age 18 doesn't mean your wires aren't crossed. Perhaps the reason people become religous is because of a mental defect... it sure would explain a lot.

Case in point:

My grandmother wasn't born schizophrenic, in fact she was in her late 20's when she really started hearing the voice of God telling her to stand naked on the porch and talk in tongues... some might say she was touch by god... the board of mental health said she was touched in the head... and she most certainly was.

Perhaps "Faith" is just another word for "Delusion"....

As far as it being your choice to hear voices, how do you know it was your choice? Maybe a mental defect made that choice for you... maybe you're actually really messed up in the head, but religion just gives it the appearance of social acceptability.

[bravenewworld1]

Just because you started hearing the voice of an invisible omnipotent being in your head at age 18 doesn't mean your wires aren't crossed. Perhaps the reason people become religous is because of a mental defect... it sure would explain a lot.

Case in point:

My grandmother wasn't born schizophrenic, in fact she was in her late 20's when she really started hearing the voice of God telling her to stand naked on the porch and talk in tongues... some might say she was touch by god... the board of mental health said she was touched in the head... and she most certainly was.

Perhaps "Faith" is just another word for "Delusion"....

As far as it being your choice to hear voices, how do you know it was your choice? Maybe a mental defect made that choice for you... maybe you're actually really messed up in the head, but religion just gives it the appearance of social acceptability.

Now come on War.
I am not religious at all. But you know as well as i do that religion provides substance and tranquility to a lot of people. And none of them have to be crazy or messed up to accept this.
Religion = the idea that true death is just a thought and not reality.

[pastor_ice43]

Just because you started hearing the voice of an invisible omnipotent being in your head at age 18 doesn't mean your wires aren't crossed. Perhaps the reason people become religous is because of a mental defect... it sure would explain a lot.

Case in point:

My grandmother wasn't born schizophrenic, in fact she was in her late 20's when she really started hearing the voice of God telling her to stand naked on the porch and talk in tongues... some might say she was touch by god... the board of mental health said she was touched in the head... and she most certainly was.

Perhaps "Faith" is just another word for "Delusion"....

As far as it being your choice to hear voices, how do you know it was your choice? Maybe a mental defect made that choice for you... maybe you're actually really messed up in the head, but religion just gives it the appearance of social acceptability.

There's a big difference between having faith and hearing voices my man. I'll agree with you 100% that anyone who literally "hears the voice of god" has something screwed up in their head. True believers feel his presents through acts and in their heart...not by physically hearing or seeing him. Religion in every case is still a choice. It's a lifestyle you chose to live because you feel that it's right, and because you don't want to go to hell. Homosexuality (for the most part) is not a choice people make, but rather a lifestyle they live because their sexual impulses are screwed up. Men are attracted to other men like straight men are attracted to women...and visa versa for women. It's no different then any other sexual perversion. It's a flaw in the grand scheme of things, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with correcting that flaw unless it's forced upon people.

[JerkyPuck]

So pastor, I'm not going to quote you because I don't feel like messing with your 97 page post. But there you go again, comparing gay people to pedophiles. Why is it that THAT is where people go to in this argument? Why? Again, we are 2 consenting adults. There is a difference and for your self righteous ass to sit there and compare the 2 is not only childish but desparate. Get a new argument dude.

[BooBerry]

Quote:
Originally Posted by BooBerry
I don't understand how being gay is a "psychological or scientific" disorder/topic. I mean, for as long as there have been male on female relations there have been male on male ones as well. I mean, all you have to do is read a little world history and it's all over the place. Hell, it's depicted on artifacts.

Whats your point? As long as there have been people on this earth, there have been people born blind, deaf, and with all other sorts of disorders. No ones saying this is a new thing, there just saying that it DOES have something to do with the wires of the brain being crossed somewhere.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BooBerry
If that's the case, then would heterosexuality be a psychological disorder too? If both have been around since the beginning of time (the point I brought up) then who is to say that one or either are psyche disorders?

Come on man....heterosexuality is what allows life to continue, thats how you know it's not wrong or a defect. A penis is meant to fit in a vagina, semen is meant to travel through a womans tubing to an egg, fertilize it, and create a new life. No matter how you look at it, thats what life is. Homosexuality has no logical place in life...there's no reason or benefit of it.


__________________________________________________ __________
Basically what I was saying is that none of us were around at the beginning of time, so none of us know for sure what being gay truly abosolutely is. MAYBE, being born with blue or green eyes is no different than being born gay or straight. There is something inside of us that causes it, but to call it a "disorder" is moronic.
A disorder (in human biology sense) is something that affects the order of one's life, no? Well this hasn't made my life disorderly. I could bone down with a chick and I'd have a baby months later. No real difference when you get down to it.

But yeah, what if some people were born to be gay for a reason we don't know of yet? Over-population control maybe? It really is hard to say because no one really knows.

But I'll tell you this much, if me and Jerky are the ones with this "disorder" then I think it's safe to say we understand it a hell of a lot better than any of you straight people. In my opinion it's the same as saying "I know how a woman feels/thinks." You really don't or can't until you become a woman.

But honestly, even if it does come out in the future that our pheromone receptors are just switched (which could be possible) I could care less. But trust me, if the media and government starts using the word "disorder" like the people on this board do, there will be a lot of problems.

[BooBerry]

But also, "external factors (the fruit flies) " is completely wrong.
It should say "external factors (the drug)"

Now you're just nit-picking for shit's sake. You knew what I meant :shakehead

[RIP]

Being born a certain way doesn't make it natural or normal.

Stunning. Absolutely stunning.


It seems to me that people like you can't be satisfied. You want equal rights for homosexuals...you want people to accept they're born that way....you want this that and the other...which is fine.

I want homosexuals to be treated as equals. You think they are inferior. It's that simple. I don't care if they were born that way, or if they simply decided that they were attracted to the same sex.


However, the minute one looks at it from a logical standpoint, and calls it what it is....a disorder of the brain, you get up in arms.

Logic based on what Pastor? You don't base anything on logic. You base it on your own personal belief system which is severely skewed towards the fantastic. If you actually had something reasonable to add to THIS argument, I would be more than happy to listen. The fact that you equate homosexuals to everything repugnant about the human species prohibits you from advancing anything logical.


You gotta take the good with the band my man. No matter what stance you look at it from, religious or scientific...it's not natural.

Define natural Pastor. You can't have it both ways. You can't say..."they were born that way", and call it unnatural. Humans are born with any number of deficiencies. (I don't consider homosexuals to be deficient, but for the sake of arguing on your level...I'll use that word.) Define natural Pastor...as you understand it.

[pastor_ice43]

So pastor, I'm not going to quote you because I don't feel like messing with your 97 page post. But there you go again, comparing gay people to pedophiles. Why is it that THAT is where people go to in this argument? Why? Again, we are 2 consenting adults. There is a difference and for your self righteous ass to sit there and compare the 2 is not only childish but desparate. Get a new argument dude.

And if you'll notice in previous posts, I made it clear that the difference between the two is that homosexuals are generally consenting adults....my comparison comes from the fact that they both stem from sexual perversions of the brain. One makes a person attracted to little kids, one makes a person attracted to the same sex. Like it or not, it's the same kind of brain defect.


Stunning. Absolutely stunning.

How so? Like I said...if a baby is born addicted to crack, it's not normal. People are born all the time deaf, blind, with extra limbs, missing a limb, missing or with extra didgets, with growths, etc. None of that is normal or natural. Being born attracted to the opposite sex, with 10 fingers, 10 toes, being able to see and hear...thats normal. Any difference to that is an anomaly and thus ABnormal. Being born a homosexual due to a brain defect is no different then being born blind or deaf.

I want homosexuals to be treated as equals. You think they are inferior. It's that simple. I don't care if they were born that way, or if they simply decided that they were attracted to the same sex.

I absolutely do not think of them as inferior. They deserve rights and respect just like any other human being. Because of my religious beliefs, I believe their lifestyle is wrong, and I'm not going to pretend that they don't have a neural abnormality that makes them gay, when it's obvious that that's the case. Thats it.

Logic based on what Pastor? You don't base anything on logic. You base it on your own personal belief system which is severely skewed towards the fantastic. If you actually had something reasonable to add to THIS argument, I would be more than happy to listen. The fact that you equate homosexuals to everything repugnant about the human species prohibits you from advancing anything logical.

I haven't used a religious standpoint once in this entire argument...in fact I've made it clear that it's a logical standpoint from a religious OR a scientific one...why is it logical? Let's look at the facts....

FACT 1
The whole point of evolutionary life is for life to continue through reproduction. This is done by attracting one sex to another. Women are given features that attract men to them, and vice versa. A man has a penis that is meant to penetrate a vagina to spread seed to a woman's egg, and thus create the end result of reproduction.

FACT 2
Homosexuality is a direct contradiction to this, and thus a flaw in the plan. It is an anomaly that occurs sometime in the womb or in early development as a child. For whatever reason, something in the brain gets crossed and instead of someone being attracted to the opposite sex. They are attracted to the same sex. This attraction has no place in the course of life, and thus cannot be part of the grand scheme.

FACT 3
It was discovered long ago that pedophilia and bestiality are in fact not cause because people simply choose to do it, but because they have a neural disorder that creates a sexual perversion in the brain. Even something as simple as a tumor can put enough pressure on the right part of the brain and create a pedophile....desires to have sex with young children....desires that can be repressed once the pressure on that part of the brain has been removed. Other then the obvious difference in societies rules (consenting adults) Homosexuality is no different then pedophilia or beasitality. It's a sexual perversion that instead of attracting someone to little kids or animals, it attracts them to the same sex.


Define natural Pastor. You can't have it both ways. You can't say..."they were born that way", and call it unnatural. Humans are born with any number of deficiencies. (I don't consider homosexuals to be deficient, but for the sake of arguing on your level...I'll use that word.) Define natural Pastor...as you understand it.

I touched on it in my first response, but a little more in depth....

excluding minor differences in biology (such as allergies)

Someone who is born with all normal functions of the human body. Someone who is
born with 10 fingers, 10 toes, four limbs ( 2 arms, 2 legs). Someone who is born with the ability to think and learn properly. Someone who is born attracted to the opposite sex, who is born able to see, hear, speak, smell, taste, and feel touch. Someone who's spine is straight, someone who's NOT addicted to any external stimulant that the mother may have been using, etc.

So for example, someone who is born deaf is not born normal....and generally steps are immediately taken to correct this PROBLEM. In fact every other anomaly from deafness or blindness all the way to learning disabilities that may not even be discovered until teen years are all immediately attempted to be corrected. Now that whatever problem that makes people attracted to the same sex can possibly be repaired, peeps are up in arms about it.

My finance' was not born normal. She was born with a rare chronic disease that makes her immune system attack her muscles instead of viruses and such. Though this PROBLEM cannot be fixed yet, it is treated and suppressed on a regular basis.

[RIP]

If that is how you define natural, then I would submit to you that you have an unnatural understanding of the word. It's nice to see that you believe in evolution, but before you enlighten us with anymore sex-ed you may want to familiarize yourself with the word asexual.

"Now that whatever problem that makes people attracted to the same sex can possibly be repaired, peeps are up in arms about it."

We're talking fruit flies at this point Pastor. The only people up in arms about this are the homophobes rejoicing at the possibility of curing this horrible plague. Talk about perverse.

[pastor_ice43]

If that is how you define natural, then I would submit to you that you have an unnatural understanding of the word.

I have to dissagree

It's nice to see that you believe in evolution

I don't...I'm simply looking at it from the standpoint of an evolutionist to make a point.

but before you enlighten us with anymore sex-ed you may want to familiarize yourself with the word asexual.

When people who are born homosexual can reproduce by themselves, then we'll talk.


We're talking fruit flies at this point Pastor. The only people up in arms about this are the homophobes rejoicing at the possibility of curing this horrible plague. Talk about perverse.

If you look back in the thread, people were upset at the notion that there "could be a cure" first....in fact, my first response was simply that the news was interesting.

[FreddyKruger316]

I don't...I'm simply looking at it from the standpoint of an evolutionist to make a point.

If you don't believe in evolution, then why are you using evolution to build your case that homosexuals are unnatural?

I'm not going to quote your entire post, but there is one part where you talk about homosexuality as a "flaw in the plan".

Homosexuality is a direct contradiction to this, and thus a flaw in the plan.
To that I ask what plan? If there is a plan for life on Earth, how can you be sure what that plan is? For all you know "the plan" could be for all humans to eventually turn gay and either develop some form of asexual reproduction or simply die out and make way for a new species to develop as the dominate one on this planet. The point is, you don't know what the plan is and neither do I.

[thorn_man]

As I stated, whether you look at it from an evolutionary standpoint, or a religious one, thats the way it's suppose to be. It's how life continues.

When you say 'looking at it from a religious standpoint', do you mean by going on the bible verses and stories where it says it's wrong?

[toxicangel19]

Oh my goodness i swear religion gets such a bad rap for this issue and people distort it, and then when are opinion is stated or belief comes out we are backed into a corner and pushed from every angle....and yes there are those who are religious and push and back others in the corner for their beliefs and its a double negative to the whole issue but this is something everyone needs to understand.......

Fact: Romans chapter 1 verse 24-27 and I quote "24Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

26Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion. "


There you go it is stated that it is immoral,however, THIS IS WHAT NOT IS STATED: HATE THEM, KILL THEM, PERSECUTE THEM

Those lines you will not find in the word of God why????? Because God does not promote hate or killing or persecution of others because of their beliefs....that is why....so for all those who wish to distort religion or the word of God think again because your freakin time is comin. Yes I do not agree with homosexuality, however, they are human beings with thoughts and feeelings and they matter just like every other person on this planet does. Regardless of what we think it is not our place to judge them "judge not less ye be Judged" The only one who has this right is God. Therefore I will not judge my best friend because she is a lesbian or hate her or treat her differently because the only difference between her and I is what sex we prefer... For those of you who do not believe in God that is fine, but dont freakin post back saying im trying to call you out or some stupid crap because this is not about YOU. What you believe is your choice and just like homosexuals have the choice to be who they are. Most of us religious folk believe that being homosexual is not something that you are born with, however, I don't think its an disorder like bipolorism is, to me that is a stupid comparison. That is like saying that being religious is a disorder. So you can't make that analogy stick. It would be like a contradiciton. Evolution has nothing to freaking do with what is going on in this particular forum post. So what if Docs can "cure" fruit flies this doesn't mean its some kind of break through a break through would be a cure for AIDS or Ebola...thats a F*ckin break through. Scientist need to spend more time focusing on these issues instead of ones that involve the freedom to be who we want to be in this country. Im gonna be a microbiologist and i can tell you that I'll be damned before I let my staff try to focus on this kind of hoopla...

[RIP]

I get your point Toxic. Believers and non-believers need to be able to find common ground. Thankfully in this country we adhere to a constitution and a legal system that allows for this common ground. I don't believe in god myself, and for the most part I find religion to be too corruptive to be worthy of follow. That said, it works for some. If gays can be gays so long as they keep it to themselves and do it behind closed doors so no one has to see it...then so too should religion be kept behind closed doors where no one has to see it.

It's irrelevant really, because the fight for gay rights will not go away. They will eventually be afforded the same rights as everyone else. People like Pastor can evolve, or remain in a perpetual state of devine bigotry.

[toxicangel19]

I get your point Toxic. Believers and non-believers need to be able to find common ground. Thankfully in this country we adhere to a constitution and a legal system that allows for this common ground. I don't believe in god myself, and for the most part I find religion to be too corruptive to be worthy of follow. That said, it works for some. If gays can be gays so long as they keep it to themselves and do it behind closed doors so no one has to see it...then so too should religion be kept behind closed doors where no one has to see it.

It's irrelevant really, because the fight for gay rights will not go away. They will eventually be afforded the same rights as everyone else. People like Pastor can evolve, or remain in a perpetual state of devine bigotry.

i understand what you are saying about the corruption there are those who corrupt religion for their own gains and distort it so they can use an excuse to persecute others because they have a personal vendetta I do not go to church because I used to go with a bunch of hypocrites...i knew people their who had lied backstabed cheated and other horrible things of the sort...i believe you can worship God even in your own home...I 've read the bible, there are still many things that I do not understand thats why I went to a class and took a scientific appraoch to it because I was tired of people saying too many different things about one subject. It can be very confusing especially if someone is trying to crame it down your throat...what alot of people don't understand is that you don't have to be perfect to be loved by God they think that you do. All you have to have is Faith in him thats it....but other people want to see it pushed in "their" direction. I agree with what you said about gay rights ofcourse it will never end I don't agree with people throwing their sh*t out there in the open....religion or gay...these are personal choices so they should remain personal.....sure you can tell me if your gay but don't tell me who you F*cked last night and how you did it that is TMI.....you know what im sayin? thank you for keeping an open mind

[RIP]

...sure you can tell me if your gay but don't tell me who you F*cked last night and how you did it that is TMI.....you know what im sayin?

Sure I know what you're saying, but lets not limit that to homosexuals. Gay or straight...I don't care who you fucked last night.

[FreddyKruger316]

I hate to go off topic, but since it was brought up. I also agree that organized religion is corrupt as hell. However, you can believe in intelligent design/God without following any organized religion. Just because mankinds greed, bigotry, and lust for power corrupted most organized religions doesn't mean that the general overall message that every organized religion shares (that there was some form of intelligence that created the Universe) is not true. I don't agree with organized religions trying to define what that intelligence is, if it exists I don't think we would be able to comprehend it- just as an ant can't comprehend that they are living on a planet hurdling through space at thousands of miles per hour.

[RIP]

An ant doesn't have time for that shit. An ant is busy is fuck.

[toxicangel19]

I hate to go off topic, but since it was brought up. I also agree that organized religion is corrupt as hell. However, you can believe in intelligent design/God without following any organized religion. Just because mankinds greed, bigotry, and lust for power corrupted most organized religions doesn't mean that the general overall message that every organized religion shares (that there was some form of intelligence that created the Universe) is not true. I don't agree with organized religions trying to define what that intelligence is, if it exists I don't think we would be able to comprehend it- just as an ant can't comprehend that they are living on a planet hurdling through space at thousands of miles per hour.


did you know that there are not supposed to be all these different churches like church of god, church of christ, pentacostal,baptist,methodist??? according to the bible all of these different so called sects of christinity did not exist in the bible. Nor are they supposed to exist today. There is only supposed to be one kind of church and thats the one that goes off of the bible and the new covenant but you have all these people like i said before that want to distort the word of god to fabric it into what they want to believe. This is only part of the problem.


RIP to your statement yes you are correct It should apply to straight or those who are gay...

[JerkyPuck]

Finally some people are making sense around here. You may not agree with me, but dear lord you're going to have to accept the fact that I am here, walking around the Earth living my life with my partner of 7 years not hurting anyone. Thank you for letting me do that.

[bravenewworld1]

Finally some people are making sense around here. You may not agree with me, but dear lord you're going to have to accept the fact that I am here, walking around the Earth living my life with my partner of 7 years not hurting anyone. Thank you for letting me do that.

ewwwwwwww.

[JerkyPuck]

ewwwwwwww.

you can ewwwww all you want to, but I'm not going anywhere. And frankly your opinion means nothing to me at all really.

[badgonegood]

I agree with Knight a few thousand or million homosexuals will not affect the population, although the rate of people being Bi-sexual and homosexual is rising.

I don't think the number is "rising" I think people just arent as secretive about it anymore. Remember these are people who would get beaten (and still do).

It's just now people are "Coming out of the closet" as they put it, so it seems like its a growing number when really people were always gay in the first place.

[MrNobody]

My take on the whole thing is, it is what it is. Like it or not. Complaining about it does nothing except give them more exposure and the do gooders back them up and feel like they are part of something which really isn't nothing to begin with. If you don't talk about it you won't hear so much about it. Same goes for every minority group or different people or whatever you want to call them. If you just go on with your life and ignore these issues you don't agree with or believe in then you'll probably hear nothing about it. I believe they love to defend themselves and can never get enough of telling people about who they are. Really, who gives a shit. If you want to do something about it, there is only one solution. Kill them all. That's not gonna happen, so just forget about it. Besides if you don't like them and their kind, just don't deal with them. If they say is it because I'm gay, or I'm black, or I'm white, or I'm this or that, tell them the truth.... Yes It Is and walk away.

[badgonegood]

My take on the whole thing is, it is what it is. Like it or not. Complaining about it does nothing except give them more exposure and the do gooders back them up and feel like they are part of something which really isn't nothing to begin with. If you don't talk about it you won't hear so much about it. Same goes for every minority group or different people or whatever you want to call them. If you just go on with your life and ignore these issues you don't agree with or believe in then you'll probably hear nothing about it. I believe they love to defend themselves and can never get enough of telling people about who they are. Really, who gives a shit. If you want to do something about it, there is only one solution. Kill them all. That's not gonna happen, so just forget about it. Besides if you don't like them and their kind, just don't deal with them. If they say is it because I'm gay, or I'm black, or I'm white, or I'm this or that, tell them the truth.... Yes It Is and walk away.



???

[JerkyPuck]

I don't defend myself because I like to. I defend myself because it is necessary for change. Do you think the civil rights movement would have happened if every black person in America would have just "gone on with their lives"??? That's just retarded.

[MrNobody]

You can see if someone's black. You can't see if someone's gay unless your involved in some sort of gay act or your one of those drama queen ones, so to speak.

[JerkyPuck]

You can see if someone's black. You can't see if someone's gay unless your involved in some sort of gay act or your one of those drama queen ones, so to speak.

Oh so, I'm supposed to keep it to myself so as not to bother you. Sorry kiddo. That aint happening.

[bravenewworld1]

I don't defend myself because I like to. I defend myself because it is necessary for change. Do you think the civil rights movement would have happened if every black person in America would have just "gone on with their lives"??? That's just retarded.

Huge difference between race and sexuality.

Sexuality can be created.
Race cannot.

[Creator_and_Destroyer]

Wow. Fucking wow. This is what I have to say about the research... So far, all the scientists have done is fucked up the fruit flies' receptors to mate with a male fruit fly. This isn't turning them gay... this is just making them fuck the same sex. Making their brains think they're fucking a female. It's an illusion to the fruit fly. In turn, even if this becomes a 'cure', all it will do is make homosexuals believe they're fucking a male due to pheromones. All smoke and mirrors. Maybe I don't have the correct terminology or whatever... I'm just stating that this isn't a cure.

As far as being a mental disorder... Wow again. Just fucking wow. I don't believe in Christianity. I believe the Bible was written by arrogant bastards who were so pissed off by how society was rebelling against religion that they created a book, stating God said this is right and this is wrong. The whole point to our lives is Free Will. That is one thing I can say we should all be able to agree upon, no? God gave us free will, to choose. However, homosexuality is not a choice. It is NOT a mental disorder simply because the common sexual preference that is accepted is heterosexuality simply because they can reproduce. I'm sorry, but if you believe you were created on this earth simply to make babies, then you must live a terrible life.

I believe in a higher power. It is a loving entity that gave us life. However, I think we're nothing more than an ant farm that the higher power watches over, giving us food and a home. I believe my higher power gave us the power to evolve, to adapt and that's what we're doing. We're adapting, we're evolving. Also, homosexuality has been around almost forever as long as heterosexuality, so how can you say what is and is not a mental disorder. Pedophiles and beastials (whatever the fuck they call 'em) are MUCH different. Why? Well, if all you're going by is the fact that homosexuality is different than heterosexuality and so is pedophilia and beastiality... then who's to say that heterosexuality isn't a mental disorder? Just because you procreate... again, think about that. If all you were made for in this life is to procreate, I don't see any of you doing just that. You have jobs, you have dreams and aspirations you live out day to day, you have families (not because God told you too) but because you wanted to or you had to because of an 'accident.' You don't live your life believing you're only made to procreate. That isn't a point to life. You're just using it as an excuse to state why heterosexuality is considered normal because you have babies... Well, bitches, I can too. And I hope they're more queer than I am.

As far as numbers growing, it has to be growing. If the population grows, then so does the numbers of homosexua