Belichick The Cheat

[koolmike]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ap-goodell-specter&prov=ap&type=lgns

Says it all:

Belichick has been taping since 2000, Goodell tells Specter

By LAURIE KELLMAN, Associated Press Writer
February 13, 2008
WASHINGTON (AP) -- Bill Belichick has been illegally taping opponents' defensive signals since he became the New England Patriots' coach in 2000, according to Sen. Arlen Specter, who said NFL commissioner Roger Goodell told him that during a meeting Wednesday.

"There was confirmation that there has been taping since 2000, when Coach Belichick took over," Specter said.

Specter said Goodell gave him that information during the 1-hour, 40-minute meeting, which was requested by Specter so the commissioner could explain his reasons for destroying the Spygate tapes and notes.


"There were a great many questions answered by Commissioner Goodell," Specter, the senior Republican on the Senate Judiciary Committee, told reporters after the meeting. "I found a lot of questions unanswerable because of the tapes and notes had been destroyed."

Goodell said Belichick told him he believed the taping was legal; Goodell said he did not concur.

"He said that's always been his interpretation since he's been the head coach," the commissioner said. "We are going to agree to disagree on the facts."

Specter, from Pennsylvania, wants to talk to other league officials about what exactly was taped and which games may have been compromised.

"We have a right to have honest football games," he said.

Goodell noted that "we were the ones that disclosed" the Patriots' illegal taping of the New York Jets' defensive signals in Week 1 of last season. Further, Goodell said, they had an admission by Belichick.

"I have nothing to hide," Goodell said.

Goodell also told Specter that that he doesn't regret destroying the Spygate tapes or the notes.

"I think it was the right thing to do," Goodell said.

Still, Specter wants to know why penalties were imposed on Belichick before the full extent of the wrongdoing was known and the tapes destroyed in a two-week span. Asked if he thinks there was a coverup, Specter demurred.

"There was an enormous amount of haste," Specter said.

He scoffed at the reasons Goodell gave for destroying the tapes and notes, particularly about trying to keep them out of competitors' hands and because Belichick had admitted to the taping.

"What's that got to do with it? There's an admission of guilt, you preserve the evidence," Specter said. As for keeping the tapes out of the hands of others: "All you have to do is lock up the tapes."

Belichick was fined $500,000 and the team was fined $250,000 because of the Spygate incident. The Patriots also forfeited a first-round draft pick.

Specter has questioned the quality of the NFL's investigation into the matter and raised the possibility of congressional hearings if he wasn't satisfied with Goodell's answers. Specter also raised the threat of Congress canceling the league's antitrust exemption and reiterated that in the meeting with Goodell.

Goodell also said he has not heard from Matt Walsh, the former Patriots employee who performed some videotaping duties for the team.

Walsh told The Associated Press last week during the Pro Bowl in Hawaii that he couldn't talk about allegations that he taped a walkthrough practice by the St. Louis Rams before the 2002 Super Bowl. New England, a two-touchdown underdog, won that game 20-17.

Goodell said he has offered Walsh a deal whereby "he has to tell the truth and he has to return anything he took improperly" in return for indemnity. Specter said he, too, wanted to talk to Walsh and perhaps offer a different deal.

Goodell also said he reserves the right to reopen the investigation if more information is uncovered.

[réÐþÁ†µ]

All gonna come down to Walsh because its people like that who will ultimately cause more sanctions on the Pats and dont think with the draft a couple months away that they wont take away the other 1st round pick.

They wont go much harsher than that because there is a line that has to be drawn and if you turn around and bury an organization. It really doesnt bold well if you seem like you're only targeting one organization when other organizations do similiar things as many coaches have admitted only they havent been caught.

Hell the Giants won the Superbowl, but the talk all offseason looks to be Pats all the time, everytime.

I'd just hope they find something else to talk about. How about the Champions or are they out to provoke a witchunt all offseason and into next season?

[IKickAssForTheLord]

http://break.com/index/patriots-parody-you-cheated.html

Koolmike u in this video somewhere?

[koolmike]

:lol:

Funny clip.

[koolmike]

Of course you're right RedPATH. You're a fair guy and a good observer. But he was caught and he has to take the heat.

(This thread was targeted at Hof78. :D)

[H78]

Of course you're right RedPATH. You're a fair guy and a good observer. But he was caught and he has to take the heat.

(This thread was targeted at Hof78. :D)

This is an easy thread to respond to, sucka.

Winning creates envy. I wonder how many small, insignificant rules the Falcons, Rams, Phins, Chiefs and Ravens have been breaking lately that no one seems too interested in trying to find out about?

Know why no one's interested?

They combined for less wins in '07 than the Patriots did all by themselves.

The moment they take a SB away from the Pats for this (if they ever try) I fully expect the Yankees to give up every championship and AL Pennant they won when Roger was their ace. I also expect Spector to always be interested in making sure the Yankees "play an honest game" every time out from now on.

[B]Also, K, don't skip out on me with this: Why is no one mentioning the Jets videotaping signals and shouting audibles at the line this year? Boy, that whole thing seemed to drop off the face of the earth rather quickly, didn't it?

Oh yeah, it's because the Jets were 4-12 and have been insignificant for years.

Spygate = Nothing to see here. Why? Because the Patriots at least got three rings out of it:
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3151217

[Knight]

The Jets didn't break any rules with their methods. The Patriots did. Pretty simple concept here. It was a non-story, non-issue and that's why there wasn't any action taken by the league.

H78, you seem to forget that the NFL sent out memos to all 32 teams about illegal videotaping PRIOR to Belichick getting caught making it clear that taping signals was against league rules. This means that Belichick was defiant and calculating in his actions and his whole 'interpretation malfunction' defense after the fact was a complete and utter lie.

You know, you can be a fan of the Patriots without being a complete apologist. Pats fans need to just admit that Belichick brought all this nonsense on himself and stop blaming everything on 'playa hatin'.

[H78]

The Jets didn't break any rules with their methods. The Patriots did. Pretty simple concept here. It was a non-story, non-issue and that's why there wasn't any action taken by the league.

H78, you seem to forget that the NFL sent out memos to all 32 teams about illegal videotaping PRIOR to Belichick getting caught making it clear that taping signals was against league rules. This means that Belichick was defiant and calculating in his actions and his whole 'interpretation malfunction' defense after the fact was a complete and utter lie.

You know, you can be a fan of the Patriots without being a complete apologist. Pats fans need to just admit that Belichick brought all this nonsense on himself and stop blaming everything on 'playa hatin'.

Within the rules? The only difference between what the Patriots did and what the Jets did (according to Mangini) was the Jets got permission. So Mangini (who learned everything he knows from Belichick) is supposed to be believed for his story while Belichick gets villainized for doing the same thing? This is comparable to all those meat heads who shit on Bonds but still want Clemens in the Hall of Fame.

What do you think Mangini was recording? Cheerleaders? A fat guy with beer in the stands? Brady's ass? It doesn't take a rocket scientist to read between the lines.

The bottom line is you're absolutely right, Knightz - what Belichick did was wrong. But for all of the other 31 teams and their fans to jump down the throats of the Pats as an organization and cry foul on their championships is nothing less than sour grapes.

As someone who likes the team, it gets really old when you know just about every other football fan wants to see your team discredited when in reality what they did wrong is not uncommon. You know why the Patriots have three titles? They were better than every team they played on each game day.

If someone like Tony Dungy did it everyone would call it a competitive edge. Why? Well gosh, he's just so darn likable. Everyone seems to want to turn a blind eye to Dungy's Colts getting a competitive edge with the pumped in crowd noise. Several teams have complained about it with the Colts, just they haven't been caught. If the Pats had an average record of 2-14 since 2001 this thread wouldn't even exist. Because they win, though, everything they do is magnified 1000 times.

I'm not 'apologizing' for Belichick, Knightz. I'm simply sticking up for a team I constantly saw make more plays than other team over the years. If you think videotaping changed any of that, I don't know what to tell you. If you want to turn a blind eye to what everyone else in the league is doing as well, I also don't know what to tell you. You're entitled to your opinion.

I think going 16-0 and barely getting edged out in the Super Bowl proved how good of a coach BB really is and how overblown and lame all this Spygate stuff has become. For some people, though, it hasn't changed anything because they need to find something to justify hating a team that's had so much success.

[H78]

Actually, while we're at it, this is what 10 minutes of Google research got me:

http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/2007/11/19/packers-accused-of-bounties/

"Clubs and players are prohibited from offering or accepting bonuses to a player for his or his team's performance against a particular team, a particular opposing player or players, or a particular group of an opposing team."

The question now is whether the players will face any major sanctions from the league.
The Packers gave the players the day off today after their 31-17 win over Carolina. They are going to be deep into preparations for Thursday's game at Detroit when they return to work Tuesday, so the team is smart to quickly try to diffuse this story.

Not cheating, but definitely breaking the rules! Maybe McCarthy should be docked some pay and a draft pick for letting his guys get into this stuff.

Oh, what about this report out of Seattle? Please note the article mentions Green Bay again, as well as Buffalo, Minnesota and St. Louis.

http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/giants/2006/09/seahawks-12th-man-the-loudspea.html

According to a report in the Seattle Times, the NFL is investigating long-rumored allegations that the Seahawks enhance the noise at Qwest Field by pumping in artificial noise. The Giants were hardly surprised by that news today. Most of the players said they were caught off guard by how loud the stadium was when they played there last season. A few of them even mentioned loudspeakers that seemed to be pointed straight at the Giants sidelines.

Hey, check this out, the Broncos and Niners were paying more for players than they were allowed! Talk about a competitive edge!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A28969-2004Sep17.html

http://www.boulderpublishing.com/sports/football/a382023a.shtml

Cheating happens everywhere, no matter what kind of anti-Patriot blinders people want to wear. Fact is, most signals change from game to game. If recording D-signals is cheating, everyone listed above is no better. Cheating the salary cap to field a better team, crowd noise to disrupt snaps, making bets before games giving players extra incentive to take a guy out...no matter what it is, it was all cheating.

Give me a break, fellas.

[Grendel]

Not saying someone shouldn't be dealing with this, but doesn't a sitting US Senator have anything better to do with his time than this?

[Knight]

Within the rules? The only difference between what the Patriots did and what the Jets did (according to Mangini) was the Jets got permission. So Mangini (who learned everything he knows from Belichick) is supposed to be believed for his story while Belichick gets villainized for doing the same thing?

From what I understand, Mangini was taping the actual game as opposed to taping signals. That is a huge difference. And besides, we're not talking about word against word here. There was indisputable, concrete video evidence against the Patriots. If anything the whole Jets story seemed like some cheesy, desperate attempt at revenge by the Patriots.

What do you think Mangini was recording? Cheerleaders? A fat guy with beer in the stands? Brady's ass? It doesn't take a rocket scientist to read between the lines.

Again, if we're talking about evidence, it doesn't matter what anything THINKS.

The bottom line is you're absolutely right, Knightz - what Belichick did was wrong. But for all of the other 31 teams and their fans to jump down the throats of the Pats as an organization and cry foul on their championships is nothing less than sour grapes.

You have to take the good with the bad. You win and everyone hates you. That's how it works. Perhaps everyone's just sick of the man-love over the east coast big market sports teams. I don't even bother with sports radio anymore because no one simply talks about anything other than Boston and New York, so what's the friggin' point?

On the flipside, I didn't see much complaining from anyone on the Pats side when fans of all 31 teams had to repeatedly smell the farts from Pats fans and the media about how the Patriots were the greatest team of all time.

As someone who likes the team, it gets really old when you know just about every other football fan wants to see your team discredited when in reality what they did wrong is not uncommon.

No one really knows how 'common' it is though. You can make the assumption, but then again, we have to go by the facts here. The fact is no one else has been caught thus far.

Everyone seems to want to turn a blind eye to Dungy's Colts getting a competitive edge with the pumped in crowd noise.

The NFL investigated the claims and found nothing. So there's nothing to go on here.

Because they win, though, everything they do is magnified 1000 times.

This goes back to taking the good with the bad.

If you think videotaping changed any of that, I don't know what to tell you.

I'm not an offensive/defensive coordinator and I have absolutely no clue how teams prepare each week for their opponents. I am not sure if videotaping signals give a huge competitive edge or none whatsoever. But you have to wonder, considering it's against the rules, why is it clearly worth the risk for someone like Belichick? You have to think it gives SOME sort of advantage or otherwise no one would bother.

I think going 16-0 and barely getting edged out in the Super Bowl proved how good of a coach BB really is and how overblown and lame all this Spygate stuff has become.

Don't know about that. For one, the Giants were statistically one of the worst Superbowl teams in history. They had an insanely bad turnover margin during the regular season and ranked near the bottom of the list in points allowed. The Patriots were favored to win by 14 and should have. Belichick is no doubt a brilliant football mind, but I'm thinking his ego got in the way of winning a title this year. I saw absolutely no halftime adjustments when he should have clearly put in extra blockers to help Brady. Reminds me of the Denver-Green Bay Superbowl where Denver blitzed almost every down yet Holmgren wanted 5 receivers out there every snap to show off his offense.

This was easily Belichick's worst moment as a football coach.

[Max Payne]

Walsh aint got shit on the Pats, everyone is doing it, oh and dont forget this wasnt illegal until 2006.

If the Pats are cheating, then so too the Yankees of the 90's, how many key members of those teams were on roids?

Time to drop it people, Pats dominated this season without taping, and lost the SB. And were still putting up with jelous Jet fans.

Its so boring

KNIGHT

Your being pretty difficult regarding this whole mess, Mangini admited to filming in the Pats endzone, when very clearly there are designated areas for cameras for designated people, its clear violation of the rule, and admiting to it is evidence enough to it have happening. You said when I brought it up that week that I should realize that the Pats playng the Jets that week was bound to bring up stories like this and doesnt mean it to be true, or some shit like that.

The pats are a bunch of cheaters, i dont care. It doesnt hurt when you have the best QB in the leauge, and top 4 defense either. But lets avoid the facts, lets just look at it as if the Pats were the only team doing this. Everyone needs to let it go, you took your best shot and they still perservered.

[H78]

So unless caught red-handed, you're not willing to believe a team is cheating?

So you must think O.J. is innocent, Bonds really only ever injected himself with vitamins, and Clemens just loves B-12.

Also, Lizzie Borden was a loving daughter, George W. Bush really started the war because he honestly believed there were WMD, and Paris Hilton has never been drunk in her life.

Come on Knight, let's be serious about this. All it comes down to is hate and envy toward a successful team. You said yourself you're tired of the east coast bias in sports immediately after making the Patriots out to be the biggest cheaters since Richard Nixon.

I respect your opinion, but I definitely think there's a hint of a begrudged Packers fan in what you're saying.

Belichick cheated. I'm not denying that. But from 2001 until a week and a half ago, they may have never been a greater team to consistently walk on a football field under any one coach.

If you think the Jets just videotaped the game, BTW, you're not helping your cause. CBS provides much better multiple-angle footage of games than any sideline cameraman with a hand-held could.

Stop hatin'! I was never smug about the Pats, but some of ya'll make me wish I was.

[H78]

Also, the Giants beat the Pats in addition to the Packers and Cowboys. They got hot at the right time; the regular season was light years away from where they were in the playoffs. The beat two 1's and a 2 and they deserve the championship.

[Max Payne]

Don't know about that. For one, the Giants were statistically one of the worst Superbowl teams in history. They had an insanely bad turnover margin during the regular season and ranked near the bottom of the list in points allowed. The Patriots were favored to win by 14 and should have. Belichick is no doubt a brilliant football mind, but I'm thinking his ego got in the way of winning a title this year. I saw absolutely no halftime adjustments when he should have clearly put in extra blockers to help Brady. Reminds me of the Denver-Green Bay Superbowl where Denver blitzed almost every down yet Holmgren wanted 5 receivers out there every snap to show off his offense.

This was easily Belichick's worst moment as a football coach.


Im not making excuses, but Brady had two bad games in a row, clearly a ankle issue, and the offensive line played like shit.

With all of that, the Pats lost by 3, because of the insane amount of pressure, this is obviously a any given sunday kind of thing. Bret Farve caused them a loss against the Giants with turn over after turn over, which he hadnt done all year, that was my key to the game, and I was right.

So forget statistics. The Pats season, and you cant blame adjustments on BB, this is on the offensive cordinator, he makes all the calls and that is that, no one steps on anyones toes in NE, in fact reports say Brady asked Mcdaniels about
making some changes, and he said NO that the game plan they had would work.

I dont want to make excuses, but I can be completely un biased with this cause I dont care the Pats lost, I know they still have a bright future.

Were talking literally a freak of nature catch, a amazing escape by Manning for a what, 40 yard completion on 3rd instead of 4th in long, or a dropped INT by Samuels. So, are we talking about BB worst moment if those dont happen the way they typically shouldnt? No, so lets keep this a little more realistic.

[Knight]

Your being pretty difficult regarding this whole mess

You need to take a good hard look at yourself and your own posts from this year. Despite the evidence, you never once acknowledged the notion that Belichick deserved any sort of blame whatsoever from his own actions and that simply everyone was out to get the Patriots. Oh yeah, you also claimed a few weeks back that this Patriots team was the greatest ever and we should all just shut the fuck up and revel in the 'privilege' of watching NFL history in the making. And you wonder why people think a lot of Bostonians are a bunch of arrogant douchebags. Personally, I don't generalize, but you're not doing a hell of a lot to prove those stereotypes wrong.


You said when I brought it up that week that I should realize that the Pats playng the Jets that week was bound to bring up stories like this and doesnt mean it to be true, or some shit like that.What's your point? I said it was a non-issue then and I'm saying it's a non-issue now.

[Knight]

So unless caught red-handed, you're not willing to believe a team is cheating?

It's not a matter of what you believe, it's what you can prove. The facts are, you can't name a single team you KNOW, FOR A FACT, who engages in this sort of activity. So all this grade school 'everyone else probably does it so...' assumption rings a bit hallow.

You said yourself you're tired of the east coast bias in sports immediately after making the Patriots out to be the biggest cheaters since Richard Nixon.Never said they cheated. I said they broke the rules. Big difference. Seems to me you're just looking for any excuse here to cry 'foul' regardless if it's an actual shot at the Patriots legacy or just a valid question in terms of what possible advantages it gave them in games. Honestly, this 'anti-Patriot' rhetoric just makes some of you look like sore losers.

but I definitely think there's a hint of a begrudged Packers fan in what you're saying.Why would Packer fan care about the Patriots? The Packers beat the Patriots in a Superbowl a decade ago, other than that, absolutely no connection or rivalry between the two teams. Different divisions, different conference, different time zone, so I couldn't give a monkey's ass about the Patriots. As a Packer fan there's plenty of better choices out there in terms of things to be 'begrudged' about, for instance, Brett Favre's utter worthlessness in the playoffs.

Belichick cheated. I'm not denying that. But from 2001 until a week and a half ago, they may have never been a greater team to consistently walk on a football field under any one coach./QUOTE]

I would disagree.

[quote]If you think the Jets just videotaped the game, BTW, you're not helping your cause. CBS provides much better multiple-angle footage of games than any sideline cameraman with a hand-held could.Since you keep bringing up what I 'think', could you please provide some sort of link stating that the Jets were caught video taping signals or something else that was supposed to give a huge competitivee advantage? If you can't then it's really not worth arguing over because it's pure speculation.

Stop hatin'! I was never smug about the Pats, but some of ya'll make me wish I was.You and Max are the ones hating here. I'm just bringing some non-biased objectivity to the table (starting to sound like Elder here) :D.

[Max Payne]

The point is, you are wrong.

The rule book says, exactly where the cameras need to be.

If a team official has a camera in the end zone, that is not where he is suppose to be.

Mangini admited to this, so its a fact.

So it doesnt matter what he was filming, he broke the rules.

So its ok to break the rules, but the extent to what you do is what defines you as a cheater?




As for the Pats, this team regardless is or was a great team, no longer can you say they were the greatist, that boat sailed. In fact, the Pats losing is a bigger upset then them winning in 01.

I dont consider it a choke, they could have won the game, they had there opertunity, but they were out played.

Also, Im from Maine, so Im not exactly a pure bostonian

[Knight]

Im not making excuses, but Brady had two bad games in a row, clearly a ankle issue, and the offensive line played like shit.

I love when someone precedes their statements with 'I'm not making excuses here, but' then goes on to make excuses. :lol:

'Hey, I'm not racist, but man, black folks sure do love fried chicken!'

Two bad games in a row? No, he had one bad game. Considering the amount of pressure he had to deal with during the Superbowl, I thought he did a fine job. The offensive line played like shit? Yeah, because the Giants were sending 7-8 guys against 5 blockers. Even the best offensive line can't handle that sort of pressure without some extra help at some point. His ankle? You've got to be kidding.

With all of that, the Pats lost by 3, because of the insane amount of pressure, this is obviously a any given sunday kind of thing.No actually it's a Belichick got outcoached kind of thing.

I dont want to make excuses

You have a funny way of showing it.

[H78]

E? You're back! I've been waiting to call you a piece of shit again for some time! :D

Hey, it all comes down to how you feel about things. You can feel the way you want to, I don't care. I'm still looking forward to watching Pats games every week next season and likely make another trip to the Super Bowl.

The only thing that bugs me is when people act like they don't deserve anything they've earned. 53 guys went out every single year and made plays and people are basically acting like they don't deserve anything because of a boneheaded coaching move.

To each their own, though. There are still three Super Bowl trophies sitting on a shelf ten miles up Route 1 from where I'm currently typing. And knowing the way sports work (being a former collegiate pitcher), I feel proud of the legitimacy in how they were earned.

[Max Payne]

Happy to make you look good, but by avoiding my last post, you conceide that I am right.

It doesnt matter how bad you broke the rules or how you broke them, but if you broke them.

[Knight]

Happy to make you look good, but by avoiding my last post, you conceide that I am right.


I don't concede shit, son. You, a homer, believe all that the Patriots do is gold, while I, a non-biased objective sports fan, see things for what they really are. To quote ReD: It is what it is.

And Jesus, nobodies dodging your dumb ass posts. Maybe some of us do a little spell checking and fact checking before hitting the 'Reply' button. And you seem to forget that I'm sitting here juggling two knuckleheads as opposed to one which is a bit more difficult and takes just a bit more time.

[H78]

I'm sitting here juggling two knuckleheads as opposed to one which is a bit more difficult and takes just a bit more time.

:bat:

[Knight]

A peace offering:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJ2yK5C9Ae4

[H78]

Ditto, dear friend:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQIMeIjP_oM

[Knight]

In slow mo:

ONNNLLLYYY GOOONNNAAAA SCCCOOORREEE 11117777 PPPOOIINNNTTSS???

HA HA HA HA HA

[Max Payne]

I don't concede shit, son. You, a homer, believe all that the Patriots do is gold, while I, a non-biased objective sports fan, see things for what they really are. To quote ReD: It is what it is.

And Jesus, nobodies dodging your dumb ass posts. Maybe some of us do a little spell checking and fact checking before hitting the 'Reply' button. And you seem to forget that I'm sitting here juggling two knuckleheads as opposed to one which is a bit more difficult and takes just a bit more time.


This is where you look like the ass you really are.

Like I care about spelling? Is it an important feature for me to make sure is working in my life on a horror message board?

Does this make you better then me?

Im not a homer, you must of missed the Part where I said the Giants out played the Pats and deserved and earnt that win, you quoted half of one of my post so forgive me if you skip part of it for other reasons of ignoring it.

[Knight]

This is where you look like the ass you really are.

Like I care about spelling? Is it an important feature for me to make sure is working in my life on a horror message board?


A) Shut the hell up.

B) You're on here saying someone 'concedes' an argument because they don't friggin' respond within 30 seconds of you hitting the 'Reply Button', so who looks like an ass?

C) Shut the hell up.

[Max Payne]

Heres the deal, The patriots didnt win the SB.

They didnt go undefeated.

There not the best team of all time.

Im a complete Homer.

Im not objective.

Im a New Englander and that puts me at 1A for most annoying fan in the country, with 1B currently NY fans.

So lets all just look past that with insults or reasons to dispute what I say, because there now known facts that dont need to be brought up in every post.

*waits for someone to resort to silly name calling or calling out my bad grammer.

[H78]

In slow mo:

ONNNLLLYYY GOOONNNAAAA SCCCOOORREEE 11117777 PPPOOIINNNTTSS???

HA HA HA HA HA

I bet Favre had an awesome home theater setup for the Super Bowl this year. Can you imagine?

[H78]

:movies:

[Luris Blear]

Not saying someone shouldn't be dealing with this, but doesn't a sitting US Senator have anything better to do with his time than this?Not right now. Not a good idea to promise everyone higher taxes and more foolish spending while in the middle of a recession. (That will have to stay in the footnotes of eighty page bills that no one will ever read.)

This is the kind of high profile news story that gets nothing of any value done. It's an election year, Grendel. The parties also need to keep their side of the aisle looking nice so that the good vibes will rub off on their candidate. Since they can't spend money that we don't have to give them, they'll have to somehow take down someone with more of it.

[IKickAssForTheLord]

I'm not gonna read all of that, but u guys should go to court and discuss this.

[Knight]

I bet Favre had an awesome home theater setup for the Super Bowl this year.

Well it's probably better than Belichick's. Poor SOB is on government cheese after getting jacking $500,000 by the league. :lol:

[H78]

Well it's probably better than Belichick's. Poor SOB is on government cheese after getting jacking $500,000 by the league. :lol:

And if anyone needs a big screen to watch some good 'ol home movies on, it's Belichick. :ahheh:

And don't diss the government cheese. When I was a kid my mother often chose the bar over a fine dinner and you'd be shocked how good a block of that shit melted on some elbow macaroni can taste!

[Knight]

And don't diss the government cheese. When I was a kid my mother often chose the bar over a fine dinner and you'd be shocked how good a block of that shit melted on some elbow macaroni can taste!

That's because it's from Wisconsin. :nod:

[H78]

Must be a shady part of Wisconsin judging from the texture.

[IKickAssForTheLord]

I like cheese

[Lucio Argento]

*waits for someone to resort to silly name calling or calling out my bad grammer.

grammar*

[Max Payne]

thanks

[Joker]

C'mon,the video taping had nothing to do with the Patriots success as being one of the most dominant teams ever,which is why they continued to do it for eight years.

This next year will tell the story in my opinion,we will see if belichick is really a football genius,and if Brady is one of the best QB's ever.
If they continue to be successful,spygate will be forgotten,if ther're not,then........

[H78]

C'mon,the video taping had nothing to do with the Patriots success as being one of the most dominant teams ever,which is why they continued to do it for eight years.

This next year will tell the story in my opinion,we will see if belichick is really a football genius,and if Brady is one of the best QB's ever.
If they continue to be successful,spygate will be forgotten,if ther're not,then........

This next year?

They got caught in the first half of the first game of the season this year. How hasn't 18-1 proven anything?

Let's assume they didn't outscore the Jets in just the second half of that game anyway (they did, 24-14). Let's give the Pats the loss for week one.

Now they're 17-2. They still need to prove that they're a dominant team?

Some of the pro-Spygate arguments have such gaping holes in them that people purposefully ignore that it makes the whole situation laughable. People will find anything they can to crucify the Pats while blatantly ignoring things like a 24-point post-Spygate second half against the Jets in Week 1.

[koolmike]

:lol:

Nice job Knight. I only wish I was here earlier.

I knew Hof78 and MP were going to be supportive over their cheating, filthy liar of a coach and dismiss the facts. :dsp:


I bet if O.J. Simpon was from New England, they would say he was innocent. :D

[IKickAssForTheLord]

well he is innocent.

[Joker]

Now they're 17-2. They still need to prove that they're a dominant team?


No,they need to prove they are a dominant team without knowing how the defense is going to line up.


This next year?

Yeah,this next year/season,it will be interesting to see how well they play without having this advantage.IF it was an advantage.

And no,I'm not a Patriots hater,actually a very big fan of both Moss and Maroney.It just looks like the evidence is starting to stack up.

"The St. Louis Post-Dispatch reported Sunday that a Patriots cameraman videotaped the Rams' final walkthrough prior to Super Bowl XXXVI. The Rams emphasized red-zone plays in the workout. During the game, the Pats recovered a fumble on their own 3 and returned it for a touchdown. Although the TD was negated due to penalty, a Rams source said the team had not run that play all year and it couldn't have been so well anticipated."
Source: St. Louis Post-Dispatch
Related: Rams

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08046/857665-66.stm

[Revenant]

Maybe they'll take that 7th overall pick away, its the one they should have taken away first anyway.

[Lucio Argento]

What a bunch of cheating losers the Pats are. The fans that are blind to this aren't much better.

[Max Payne]

Maybe they'll take that 7th overall pick away, its the one they should have taken away first anyway.


How so?

It was the SF pick, so you take away the NE pick.

Plus, you and the NFL had every reason to believe that without the video taping the Pats would fall flat on their face and have a shitty season.

koolmike is taking the Giants SB in stride, but to be honest, as a Jet fan the only team he could possible hate more then the Giants has to be the Pats.

Cant wait to sweep the Jets for years to come.

[IKickAssForTheLord]

Pats are bad.

[koolmike]

How so?



Cant wait to sweep the Jets for years to come.

I can wait. JETS are on the ups. It's called being a loyal fan. It's easy to like a team that wins (most Patriot fans).

I'll take our losses and wins honestly, not the Patriot cheating way thank you.

[IKickAssForTheLord]

I love this thread, I'm just glad there are other ppl on here that don't like the PATS.

[koolmike]

There's nothing more annoying than the sound of a sobbing New England (Boston) fan. (high pitched squeals, like a dolphin)

[Max Payne]

How does going from a 10-6 playoff season to a what 3 or 4 win season on the ups?

Last I heard the Jets were gonna blow 100 mil on Samuels.

Talk about being a homer, your team isnt on the ups, its on the downs my friend.

Im glad you said most Pats fans, cause Im certainly not a banwagoner, I know what its like to support a shitty team.

Also, the Pats have sold out every home game since Kraft bought the team in 94, which is two seasons before there first SB appearance, and 8 before the SB win.

To suggest that winning is the reason there the most popular team in the NFL right now is only part of it, they dont go from dead last to number 3 in the leauge in money (Its actually number 2 only behind the Redskins but the list I looked at figured in all the money the new stadium that Dallas is opening will bring in for them) if you dont have loyal fans.

Thanks for your concerns

[IKickAssForTheLord]

ooooh I'm pissed now, just watchin' NFL Live right now, and they are talkin' 'bout how the Pats Taped against the Steelers 4 times!!!

[Max Payne]

Ya, and Im pissed that the Steelers said it didnt affect the outcome of the game.

Fuck those Steelers for trying to stop this train of momentum that will eventually lead to the exposer of all illegal activities all 32 teams are no doubt participating.


Please people, we get it. The Pats are the only team that has been caught, ok so be it.

But when Parcells admitted he did it, or that Jimmy Johnson admited to stealing signals or that the 94 49ers for fined for illegal contracts that allowed them to work under the cap no one wants to look at that as cheating.

People should also realize that by stealing these signals, it only helps the offense, not the Pats defense, which until 07 was the main reason for there wins.

I guess Brady is a fraud.

Mangini will never get another HC job in the NFL when he is fired by the Jets at the end of this season, he snitched out the team that gave him his shot.

[H78]

No,they need to prove they are a dominant team without knowing how the defense is going to line up.

Are you serious? Are you saying every coach who played New England after the first quarter of Week 1 used the same defensive signals as before? Once again, a tired stretch by someone who can't handle another team's success.

Yeah,this next year/season,it will be interesting to see how well they play without having this advantage.IF it was an advantage.

And no,I'm not a Patriots hater,actually a very big fan of both Moss and Maroney.It just looks like the evidence is starting to stack up.

"The St. Louis Post-Dispatch reported Sunday that a Patriots cameraman videotaped the Rams' final walkthrough prior to Super Bowl XXXVI. The Rams http://i.a.cnn.net/si/2005/writers/don_banks/01/30/patriots.nodynasty.ii/t1_belichick_trophy_all.jpgemphasized red-zone plays in the workout. During the game, the Pats recovered a fumble on their own 3 and returned it for a touchdown. Although the TD was negated due to penalty, a Rams source said the team had not run that play all year and it couldn't have been so well anticipated."
Source: St. Louis Post-Dispatch
Related: Rams

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08046/857665-66.stm

And that is still speculation. Nothing has been proven with that. You're citing a St. Louis paper about a St. Louis team. Again, think a little.

As for the play they're talking about - Warner fumbled! How would even seeing a walk-through get him to fumble the ball? Watch the play again. Also, they didn't even get the turnover, Faulk was mauled on the play by Big Willie (going off memory here) and the play was called back. So that is such a moot point it can't get any less relevant.

I'm good with the argument, though, I've made several points that have hardly been argued coherently and legitimately throughout this thread. People have blatantly ignored the post about the Packers breaking rules on two separate occasions as well as other teams breaking other league rules as well. They're ignored, of course, because when their teams are called out (talkin' to you, Knightz), they realize they look like a total hypocrite calling out the Pats.

"Well, well, nothing has been proven!", BTW, is lame when people all over the league and country are citing these other teams breaking rules (like the Packers did). Wherever there's smoke, there's fire.

Mangini = Gonna wish he kept his mouth shut when the Jets fire him after 2008, especially if he gets his Super Bowl rings revoked.

As for the rest of you, here's a couple pictures for you, and enjoy me being nothing less than Duff-like with my homerism in the future:

http://www.baltimoresun.com/media/photo/2005-02/16179957.jpg

http://www.cbc.ca/gfx/topstory/sports/belichick_bill050206.jpg

http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/pic/PHO/425452~Tom-Brady-Super-Bowl-XXXVIII-Victory-Celebration-Running-onto-Field-Photofile-Posters.jpg

http://i.a.cnn.net/si/2005/writers/don_banks/01/30/patriots.nodynasty.ii/t1_belichick_trophy_all.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/archive/6/6b/20070104140426!Patriots_Superbowl_Trophies.jpg

And for the rest of you haters, may you think of this photo as you get ready to hit the sack with your women this weekend:

http://www.ertra.com/temp/weekly/fat_lady.jpg

[skybrick]

I printed these posts out on this thread. Sat down on the bed and read them.

Great arguments going around by everybody and thats a true statement of my opinion. So congrats to that, but as the judge to this thread....


I SAY THE PATS ARE GUILTY.

due to a bias poster on the thread.

[skybrick]

HOLY HELL!!!!!
All those pics made me throw up not just the fat lady.

Fuck wheres the lysol

[H78]

You piss off the Halloween, you get to see pictures of nasty fat chicks.

Sorry, +1 for the good guy. :hi:

[Max Payne]

I dont think anyone here is biased.

How is it, that the Pat fans are defending there team, while everyone else is bashing them?

What makes the Pat fans the biased ones and not the rest of you foolish enough to think that this isnt something that is wide spread?





And for the very last time, for those of you who think its a big deal this goes all the way back to the first SB? How many times does someone have to tell you that the practice the Pats were guilty of wasnt illegal for the entire duaration of the practice?


This is horse shit, if non pat fans want to continue to talk about them even during the off season then so be it, but Im done with spy gate talk, this is litterally a 6 month long discussion that lasted longer then the entire NFL season, which is incredibly sad on the media and fans part.

This was in the past until some Eagle douche fan with some authority thought he could stir some shit up in the senate, but its not going to go down like that cause now the NFL is going to protect the leauge instead of exposing what they prolly thought was a minor small scale situation.

[Knight]

Funniest thing to all of this is that prior to this season, and I've been talking football on this forum for a good 5 years, is that H78 has NEVER came on here to talk about the Pats. According to him, he was always a 'die hard' 49ers fan but of course when it comes to the Niners this year, silence from the peanut gallery. :die:

Talk about a fairweather fan. :dsp:

[Max Payne]

Rumor today is that Ty Law will be cut.

Law and Zach Thomas = your newest members of the Patriots.

Also, Jason Taylor will be a NE Patriot. Bank on it.

[Knight]

Actually, while we're at it, this is what 10 minutes of Google research got me:

http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/2007/11/19/packers-accused-of-bounties/



Not cheating, but definitely breaking the rules! Maybe McCarthy should be docked some pay and a draft pick for letting his guys get into this stuff.


Your arms must be pretty tired from all that reaching you're doing.

[Joker]

Also, Jason Taylor will be a NE Patriot. Bank on it.

Oh no,he's gonna look good in purple.

[H78]

Your arms must be pretty tired from all that reaching you're doing.

Finally addressed it because I noted the fact that you conveniently skipped over it? Same with the stadium noise, too. Maybe now you can say I'm reaching on that one, too.

As for the 49er stuff, I do love the Niners. They're the team that got me into football when I was a kid. I forgot that you can't love two different teams, somehow it breaks an unwritten rule of sports I guess.

Now, if you need me to explain more to defend myself from that very lame Steelbonian shot, I can. But I don't think I have to because that attack is about as old as a west coast fan bitching about east coast bias in sports.

[Revenant]

How so?

It was the SF pick, so you take away the NE pick.

Plus, you and the NFL had every reason to believe that without the video taping the Pats would fall flat on their face and have a shitty season.

koolmike is taking the Giants SB in stride, but to be honest, as a Jet fan the only team he could possible hate more then the Giants has to be the Pats.

Cant wait to sweep the Jets for years to come.

a 7th overall pick has a much bigger impact than a 31st overall, they basically just gave the pats a freebie for a new young player.

[Max Payne]

Ya it does have much more value, but they took the pick that belonged to the Pats not one they traded for.

And your insane, Brady was pick 199.

The NFL is absolutely loaded with draft talent every year, its a good 4 rounds deep, this isnt the NBA draft.

Dont worry about it man, pick 7 will be traded for much more value anways.

[Knight]

Finally addressed it because I noted the fact that you conveniently skipped over it? Same with the stadium noise, too. Maybe now you can say I'm reaching on that one, too.

The stadium noise BS was written by some Giants beat-writer for god's sakes. The Giants players probably think it's artificial because they have absolutely no idea what home fan support actually sounds like. :lol: The article is weak and you're weak for using it.

I forgot that you can't love two different teams, somehow it breaks an unwritten rules of sports I guess.

You just come off as someone who's a fan of whatever team's doing the best at the moment. I just can't help but notice you pull disappearing acts when neither team wins anything yet the second the Pats have a good season you're here professing your hardcore love for them but have nothing to say about what the shitty Niners are doing at the moment.

Now, if you need me to explain more to defend myself from that very lame Steelbonian shot, I can

Dude, you've been taking weak shots at me the entire thread when all I've been making arguments based on the facts. And until I call you a 'faggot' or some other lame shit, don't compare me to steelba.

[H78]

The stadium noise BS was written by some Giants beat-writer for god's sakes. The Giants players probably think it's artificial because they have absolutely no idea what home fan support actually sounds like. :lol: The article is weak and you're weak for using it.

That 'point' is irrelevant, so there's no use discussing it. You rub off what one paper says but credit all others in your favor as gospel.

You just come off as someone who's a fan of whatever team's doing the best at the moment. I just can't help but notice you pull disappearing acts when neither team wins anything yet the second the Pats have a good season you're here professing your hardcore love for them but have nothing to say about what the shitty Niners are doing at the moment.

A fan of whatever is doing the best? Please, other than the Niners/Pats argument, elaborate on why you feel that way. Enlighten me; I'd love to hear how you came to this opinion.

As for being a 'hardcore' Pats fan, I never said nor implied anything like that. They're the home team whom I watch every week (because the Niners aren't ever on here and I don't have the DirectTV package) and I simply talk football about them. Do I root for them? Yes, I do. I don't HAVE to hate my home team because my favorite team is elsewhere, which is what you seem to think. You act like I have to join you guys in shitting on the Pats because I'm a Niners fan.

As for disappearing acts, I routinely went onto this board all throughout just about each of the past six or seven seasons and would post only a prediction on 49er games in the football forums. Maybe you glanced over them or maybe you just forgot. I don't have an answer for what you remember, but I know I've caught plenty of crap for my Niners predictions for years here.

You criticize me as a fan, yet I recall every time the Packers sucked you would hardly discuss the team. Hell, when this year's NFC Championship game ended you burst onto the board with your knee-jerk reaction about how the best QB your team has ever seen should retire because you're sick of seeing him blow playoff games. Yet you criticize me as a fan? Pot calling back the kettle?

Dude, you've been taking weak shots at me the entire thread when all I've been making arguments based on the facts. And until I call you a 'faggot' or some other lame shit, don't compare me to steelba.

I haven't been taking shots at you, I've been posting counterarguments that you simply don't like. K, you seem like a great guy, but it's pretty clear that when people go against the grain with you quite often you go into "I will fight everything no matter what" mode. Then, if you can't effectively counter-argue something, you simply pass the rival point off as "weak" no matter how compelling it may be.

As for the Steelba thing, I apologize. You hardly took this far enough to be compared to him...my bad on that one. (You didn't think you were getting off easy Steelba, did you?)

[Duff McCartney]

If the Pats are cheating, then so too the Yankees of the 90's, how many key members of those teams were on roids?

Nobody knows because there is no proof. It's just a bunch of hearsay from you.

[Max Payne]

Not from me mate, from the commisoner report.

Petite admited to HGH use, and if that proved to be true, then why should Clemons not be?

I know you dont like to hear how your team cheated, when in reality they were just 1 team of 30 full of cheaters, but there is no proof on those other teams.

Sounds like your reacting the same way us Pat fans reacted to something that apparently is more wide spread then we might know.

Time to deal with it

[Duff McCartney]

Not from me mate, from the commisoner report.

Petite admited to HGH use, and if that proved to be true, then why should Clemons not be?

I know you dont like to hear how your team cheated, when in reality they were just 1 team of 30 full of cheaters, but there is no proof on those other teams.

Sounds like your reacting the same way us Pat fans reacted to something that apparently is more wide spread then we might know.

Time to deal with it

The commissioner report brought out two players..and you plainly asked how many key members...hell I would say 1 if even that. Clemens wasn't even a Yankee until 2000.

I personally used to like the Pats. They were a class organization and the Spurs and Pats were always being talked about as model franchises. That said there's only three people in the Pats organization I can't stand...Belichick, Seau, and Rodney Harrison.

Harrison is a cheater...plain and simple. Not from my view but from the media and sports fans view. Everyone is shitting on Barry Bonds who never pissed positive for roids but nobody is pissing on Harrison for pissing hot.

Even you aren't saying shit about Harrison yet you are bashing Pettite and Clemens. If you want to wipe out the Yankees acheivements based on 1 player then wipe out the Pats solely on the fact that 1 member of the team was caught using steroids...adding that Pettite and Clemens have never been caught taking steroids ever.

[Max Payne]

People dont piss on Harrison because believe this or not, he is not a hatable person.

Bonds is, he is a dick, he carries him self as a dick, he acts like a dick and he just is.

Harrison gets shit for being "dirty"

But at the end of the day, he is borderline hall of fame player in a posistion that doesnt usually get players in, he single handidly won the Pats two super bowls and him not being in the Playoffs in 05-06 hurt the Pats more then a non Pat fan might realize, I will never shit on Harrison.

Those who dont know him, fan wise that is, just wont get it. Id say, outside of SD or NE, everyone thinks he is dirty, but thats ok. There are just some guys out there that unless there on your team your bound to hate them.

But then again, you might hate him legit, thats your opinion, you have that right.


As for Clemons, who cares, I dont think those NY titles are tainted, but I also dont think those Pat SB are either, so if people want to play this game, I got to play it too.

[Duff McCartney]

Bonds is, he is a dick, he carries him self as a dick, he acts like a dick and he just is.

Just like Belichick.

[Max Payne]

Ya?

BB is a media born villian man, they dont like that he doesnt talk to them, or give up the goods.

They dont like that he doesnt have a motor mouth like most them coaches in the leauge.

And BB isnt breaking any laws, Bonds is.

[steelba]

BB is a cheatin whore, the year he gets busted is the year he loses the SB :scratch:

[Max Payne]

Explain then not winning in the two previous seasons?

steelba is amazes me your still a fan of the NFL product, you know with the Pats cheating for 8 years running now and the Steelers cheating in that SB.

Thats dedication man

[steelba]

The Pats are winners in Nicaragua > http://www.nfl.com/superbowl/story?id=09000d5d806b4035&template=with-video&confirm=true

[Max Payne]

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9802E4D91631F933A25752C0A96F9582 60

[IKickAssForTheLord]

Steelers didn't cheat.

[réÐþÁ†µ]

I've already shared my thoughts on the spygate fiasco earlier. Nevertheless man sad to say but I'd almost hope for a breath of fresh air next season and hope the Pats tank the season and go 5-11 without any severe injuries.

There were enough sour grapes throughout the season, even more sour grapes when they LOST the Superbowl. I dont know if there would be enough sour grapes to go around if the Pats didnt make the playoffs.

Shutter to think. Maybe next season when the Pats are 5-6 during midseason. We wont have to listen to both the media slobbing over the Pats along with those who bitch about them doing it. We wont have to listen to people bitching about BB and his less than savy personality. We wont have to listen to some 'insert former Pats employee' talk about how the team has cheated everyone else over 8 years.

It would actually be refreshing I suppose. We could have a Manning vs. Manning SB. Oh man imagine that hype machine. Some may be led to believe that I hate Peyton in particular when I've had nothing but good things to say except when they play the Pats. Nevertheless, before the Brady led Pats were even a thought. Manning was the next prodigy.

Imagine a season without the Pats being relevant like 2002 when people knew thet werent going to be a factor. What would they hype? They hyped the shit outta Oakland after they got 'screwed' in 2001 and they got clompstomped by Tampa. I guess they could hope for a Manning vs. Manning bowl.

Would be tough to see which way they went. Hoping for a NY repeat or more glorification for Peyton. Interesting wager indeed. Heres hoping the Pats plunder next season so the media and everyone else can find other things to bitch about.

[Scaremonger]

Heres hoping the Pats plunder next season so the media and everyone else can find other things to bitch about.

Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary --

Plunder

b: to take by force or wrongfully : steal, loot <plundered artifacts from the tomb>

Isn't that what they've been doing? :D

Just toyin'.

However, it's reasons like below that show why the destroying of old tapes by the NFL is important. When something like this comes up, legit or not, regardless of it's importance they felt it was in the scheme of things, that was evidence. Whether it's all blown out of proportion or not, the only beef I have is there is no good explanation as to why it was destroyed. It was weird from the get go.

APNewsNow: Lawsuit seeks compensation for Super Bowl loss
February 15, 2008

NEW ORLEANS (AP) -- A lawsuit filed Friday by a former St. Louis Rams player and others seeks millions of dollars in damages from the alleged taping of Rams practices by the New England Patriots before the 2002 Super Bowl.

The Patriots won the game 20-17 in the Superdome.

The $100 million suit, filed on behalf of former Rams player Willie Gary in U.S. District Court in New Orleans, names the Patriots, team owner Robert Kraft and head coach Bill Belichick.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ap-patrioitssued&prov=ap&type=lgns

[Duff McCartney]

But at the end of the day, he is borderline hall of fame player in a posistion that doesnt usually get players in, he single handidly won the Pats two super bowls and him not being in the Playoffs in 05-06 hurt the Pats more then a non Pat fan might realize, I will never shit on Harrison.

Probably should shit on him.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3028236

In the days leading up to the Patriots' January 2004 playoff game against the Titans, New England's star safety Rodney Harrison was ordering drugs from a Florida wellness clinic that would later become a target of the Albany County district attorney.

According to law enforcement sources, Harrison requested an order by phone and was issued a phony prescription, signed by a doctor, for what was discovered to be human growth hormone, the Albany Times Union reported in Wednesday's editions.

It was reportedly the first shipment of HGH sent to Harrison, who had a standout postseason that year for the Patriots. New England went on to win Super Bowl XXXVIII in February over the Carolina Panthers.

The NFL suspended Harrison for the first four games of the regular season for violating its substance-abuse policy. Harrison, 34, is not being paid during his suspension. He will be eligible to return to the Patriots' active roster following the team's Oct. 1 game against the Cincinnati Bengals.

Harrison admitted that he has taken HGH but said he has never taken steroids.

"I want to make it clear," Harrison said before the season began, "that never once did I take steroids. I did admit to the commissioner that I took a banned substance."

The Boston Globe, citing law enforcement officials, reported in August that Harrison made no effort to disguise his name or address when he purchased HGH over the Internet.

According to The Globe's report, prosecutors said Harrison, who met with investigators for the Albany D.A.'s office late last month in Foxborough, Mass., acknowledged he bought HGH "more than once" online last year with an illegal prescription provided by a doctor associated with the Palm Beach Rejuvenation Center. Harrison said he sought the prescription to help him recover faster from shoulder and knee injuries.

Harrison is not facing any criminal charges in the case.

------------------------------------------------------

He may have singlehandedly won the Patriots Super Bowls...and now you know why...dude was roiding it up the week before the Super Bowl.

[Max Payne]

HGH doesnt enhance your ability to play ball, only your ability to recover.

Which is why HGH is not as bad.

Im not sure, but I think that HGH wasnt banned in the leauge at that time?

Regardless, he did his time for violating the rules, just like everyone else.

And the reason why Harrison didnt get a whole lot of backlash for that was he admited to and brought that to the attention of the right people.

[Duff McCartney]

HGH doesnt enhance your ability to play ball, only your ability to recover.

Which is why HGH is not as bad.

Im not sure, but I think that HGH wasnt banned in the leauge at that time?

Regardless, he did his time for violating the rules, just like everyone else.

And the reason why Harrison didnt get a whole lot of backlash for that was he admited to and brought that to the attention of the right people.

Dude you're a fucking idiot. Nothing but a New England homer and apologist. That's all I have to say.

[koolmike]

Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary --

Plunder

b: to take by force or wrongfully : steal, loot <plundered artifacts from the tomb>

Isn't that what they've been doing? :D

Just toyin'.




:lol:

Miss ya Scare.

What a headache from reading replys from those 2 sobbing bitches (Hof78 and MP)

[H78]

:lol:

Miss ya Scare.

What a headache from reading replys from those 2 sobbing bitches (Hof78 and MP)

:alienfu:

What does 7 with 17 to go mean to you?

http://www.nydailynews.com/img/2007/10/01/amd_frontpage10_01.jpg

[Max Payne]

Dude you're a fucking idiot. Nothing but a New England homer and apologist. That's all I have to say.


Dude, Boston beat SA without Garnet, I know that hurts your feelings, but dont let it blind you.

HGH wasnt even illegal in baseball into 2005 or 2006.

Andy Petite used it in 2002 and 2004, he wasnt even breaking the rules when he did it.

HGH does not enhance ones ability to play, it only allows one to get back on to the playing field faster then healing from natuarl healing.

HGH is not a fucking steroid, what is so hard to understand about that?

Cant wait until the Celts beat the Spurs in the finals, you think Im a homer now? Wait until that happens, if the Spurs can find a way to finally get in aposistion to repeat that is.

[Max Payne]

:lol:

Miss ya Scare.

What a headache from reading replys from those 2 sobbing bitches (Hof78 and MP)

And what do you have emotionally invested in this?

The Jets are on the rise as you say, but I dont see them beating the Patriots for years to come.

Get over it man, the Mets have the best baseball team in the leauge, move on from football, it isnt going to be pretty for you for some time, dont let it get to you.

[Duff McCartney]

Dude, Boston beat SA without Garnet, I know that hurts your feelings, but dont let it blind you.

I don't give a fuck if they lost to the Celtics in February. The game means nothing. Tony Parker wasn't there anyway either so what does that mean? Both teams were incomplete.

But you don't know anything about meaningless games in the regular season. Boston has been down so long you're happy just to win 40 games a year.

But of course if Scot Pollard wasn't playing you'd dismiss it if the Spurs won and say they were playing an incomplete team. That's how a big a homer you are.

[cmurdur]

I love how this turned into a Boston vs the world thread.

[Max Payne]

I don't give a fuck if they lost to the Celtics in February. The game means nothing. Tony Parker wasn't there anyway either so what does that mean? Both teams were incomplete.

But you don't know anything about meaningless games in the regular season. Boston has been down so long you're happy just to win 40 games a year.

But of course if Scot Pollard wasn't playing you'd dismiss it if the Spurs won and say they were playing an incomplete team. That's how a big a homer you are.

You don't care about the loss in February yet Tony Parker not being there is a reason for the loss, Ok I get it, both teams were hurt. 2 of the Celts starting 5 didn't play, and one of them happens to be a top 5 player in the game, Garnet is going to be the leauges MVP this year, cause look at the turn around man, how is this homerism? Stop with the homerism, maybe your being a homer because you said the Spurs lost in Feb but will win when it counts, look man, there average on the road, and the Celts are 16-0 against the Western Conferance, sometimes just sometimes, I am right, and this is one of them.

Celts play in a conferance where there is only one other team to worry about, so its a clear road to the finals, so when your team is getting beat up, who ever it is who comes out of the east will be flying easy. Wether its the Celts, Pistons, Orlando or Cleavland.

Tony Parker isnt shit by the way, he is one of those players who are better then they actually are cause there playing with a great player, ask Rondo, he doesnt look that great, but he is head of the best team in the leauge, and I think Garnet might have something to do with that impact. Id take any of the Celts big 3 over your next two big time players not named Duncan.

As for games that dont mean anything in the regular season, sure there are some. Sometimes people end the season with 60-22 record, when if they finised 55-27 it may or may not of changed there posistion in the playoffs of whatever, but they all mean something in one way or another.

For example, if the Celts didnt beat the Spurs, Id be worried wether or not they could at all. They did so without Garnet, so now I know they can compete with that team. If they were 41-9 but all 9 loses were to the Western conferance, Id wonder wether or not they could even win the finals. But this is not the case.

Sorry if it sounds like homerism, but in actuallity, there facts.

[H78]

I love how this turned into a Boston vs the world thread.

That's what happens when your team wins three Super Bowls in 7 years, two World Series in 4 years, and has the hottest team in basketball (not that I care because basketball blows); people get jealous.

I mean, since the last time New York saw a championship before the Giants (an 8-year stretch), Boston had won 5. I don't blame people like KMike for being jealous, it sucks to see your town sunk year after year by the rival town.

[IKickAssForTheLord]

I've been a die hard Boston/New England Hater since the day I was born. Don't matter if they win or lose, I will still have them. Not jealous of them either, my Teams that I like I've been doin' good. Well except the Astros... thats just another story.

[Max Payne]

Everyone has the teams they hate, and it doesnt always have to do with winning.

For example, I fucking hate the Steelers, not so much now since Cowher left, but his teams, tended to be cocky, asses, over rated and loud mouths, think Joey Porter.

A lot of people say the same thing about the Pats, but the differance is in the wins.

I dont hate any other team in the NFL, the Jets come the closest, but there not even relevent so who cares.

[Knight]

The only two teams I hate are the Bears and Vikings. But that's just in a Packer fan's DNA.

Cowboys (Mexico's team) can eat my ass...but my problem with them is mostly their massive bandwagon fanbase.

[Detective John Kimble]

Funny thread.

The bottom line here and every sucka knows it is there are only two teams and fanbases that have the most dispicable following and those are the Seattle Seagulls and the Dallas Cowgirls.

The Seagulls choke worse and as often as it rains there. Back in Superbowl 40, they had one of the best offenses of all time, even better than the 07 Patriots with Alexander gettinng comparisons to Barry Sanders even and they go in there and choke against Big Bad Worthlessberger in one of the worst Superbowls of all time. Micheal Holmgrem had to be embarassed that he couldnt coach up Hassleback as much as he did Favre in the early/mid 90s.

Seattle = weak fanbase choke artists. Thats why they moved them from the AFC West to the NFC West because they knew they couldnt handle the Chargers or Broncos.

And the Cowgirls are worse than Pats, Sox and Yankee fans combined. When they're winning. All the stories about the Cowgirls of the 60s and 70s and the Cowgirls of the 90s get their usual hype and then they crash and burn in the playoffs. Tom Landry was a man among boys outside of Lombardi but Jimmie Johnson wasnt no Tom Landry and was a choke artist in Miami.

Just like this postseason. Cowgirls choked hard against a division rival they shoulda pancaked at home but Romo was too busy studying Jessica rather than the playbook. Now Wade will be exposed as a fraud cuz hes workin with Parcells built team and when that team crumbles, he'll lose his job and go back to Alabama hunting Crocadiles.

The Jags have a more worthwhile and respectfull organizations than both the Seagulls and Cowgirls and every single person in here knows it to be the truth.

[Duff McCartney]

You don't care about the loss in February yet Tony Parker not being there is a reason for the loss, Ok I get it, both teams were hurt. 2 of the Celts starting 5 didn't play, and one of them happens to be a top 5 player in the game, Garnet is going to be the leauges MVP this year, cause look at the turn around man, how is this homerism? Stop with the homerism, maybe your being a homer because you said the Spurs lost in Feb but will win when it counts, look man, there average on the road, and the Celts are 16-0 against the Western Conferance, sometimes just sometimes, I am right, and this is one of them.

Regular season games don't mean shit. And I don't give a fuck about a game in February. You say that the Celts beat the Spurs without Garnett like it means something, then I can clearly respond that the Spurs didn't have Parker. The game means nothing because both teams were without key players.

Can you even name me one team the Spurs lost to in the regular season last year? Hell no you can't...regular season doesn't mean shit if you can't do it when it counts. Ask the 95 Rockets. They were a 6th seed and won it all.

It's not how you start it's how you finish.

[manslaughter]

Motherfucker needs to be fired.God i fucking hate that dude.The fucking nfl needs to act like a pro organization and do more than give him a slap on the fucking hand.No,let's give the fucker coach of the year the same year he's caught cheating.That's a fucking first.What kind of organization rewards cheaters??As for the patriots being a dynasty.......:dsp:

[Max Payne]

Regular season games don't mean shit. And I don't give a fuck about a game in February. You say that the Celts beat the Spurs without Garnett like it means something, then I can clearly respond that the Spurs didn't have Parker. The game means nothing because both teams were without key players.

Can you even name me one team the Spurs lost to in the regular season last year? Hell no you can't...regular season doesn't mean shit if you can't do it when it counts. Ask the 95 Rockets. They were a 6th seed and won it all.

It's not how you start it's how you finish.

Lost to a shitty Celtics team in SA, I know that.

And its why these Spur teams wont ever be mentioned with the likes of the Pistons, Lakers, or Celts of the 80's

Or the Celts and Lakers of the 60s/70's

Your welcome.

[Lucio Argento]

Lost to a shitty Celtics team in SA, I know that.

And its why these Spur teams wont ever be mentioned with the likes of the Pistons, Lakers, or Celts of the 80's

Or the Celts and Lakers of the 60s/70's

Your welcome.


Meanwhile, the Celts won't be mentioned with ANY championship teams.

[koolmike]

And what do you have emotionally invested in this?

The Jets are on the rise as you say, but I dont see them beating the Patriots for years to come.

Get over it man, the Mets have the best baseball team in the leauge, move on from football, it isnt going to be pretty for you for some time, dont let it get to you.

Jets almost beat them. We'll see next year punk. Your team lost in thye biggest way possible...the biggest let down of all time :lol:

Must suck :lol:

<---loves it. All the fun poked at the Pats, the jokes, the you tube clips are killing me. Can't say the Jets ever let NYers down like that. Namath predicted a Superbowl as underdogs, and delivered. That was then, nevertheless, a great moment. Your team will always be known as the team with 3 Superbowls, that blew the biggest game of their franchise. Fuck 'em.



You're still the biggest cry-baby I've ever seen. :lol:

[Duff McCartney]

Lost to a shitty Celtics team in SA, I know that.

And its why these Spur teams wont ever be mentioned with the likes of the Pistons, Lakers, or Celts of the 80's

Or the Celts and Lakers of the 60s/70's

Your welcome.

Because they lost to a crappy Celtics team in the early season? You must be fucking joking. No team has ever been perfect. None. Not even the Celtics or the Bulls who lost ten games in the regular season. It's impossible to win them all in a season. I guess every Pistons, Lakers, Or Celtics squad is shitty because they didn't win them all. I'll bet even they lost to teams they should have beaten.

[Max Payne]

Jets almost beat them. We'll see next year punk. Your team lost in thye biggest way possible...the biggest let down of all time :lol:

Must suck :lol:

<---loves it. All the fun poked at the Pats, the jokes, the you tube clips are killing me. Can't say the Jets ever let NYers down like that. Namath predicted a Superbowl as underdogs, and delivered. That was then, nevertheless, a great moment. Your team will always be known as the team with 3 Superbowls, that blew the biggest game of their franchise. Fuck 'em.



You're still the biggest cry-baby I've ever seen. :lol:

Yo, its fine that Jets fans get more fun out of football seeing the Pats fall on there face then they do watching their football team win, I get that. But your being as much a homer as anyone to think the Jets played a close game had anything to do with being a good team and less to do with some of the shittiest conditions for any team to play in, and the Pats still came on top. Dont be a cry baby about it, the Pats won lose to the Jets for years to come.



Because they lost to a crappy Celtics team in the early season? You must be fucking joking. No team has ever been perfect. None. Not even the Celtics or the Bulls who lost ten games in the regular season. It's impossible to win them all in a season. I guess every Pistons, Lakers, Or Celtics squad is shitty because they didn't win them all. I'll bet even they lost to teams they should have beaten.


The game was played on March 17th, 2007. Consider me silly, but thats more then half way into the season, in fact the play offs would only be about 6 weeks from that point.

Ya, what does me showing you a loss to a shitty team 6 weeks before the playoffs that the Spurs won it all in do to prove my point?

Well it doesnt really, the Spurs had some breaks with the Suns series, everyone knows that. But the fact of the matter is, being average on the road is not how you want to build a championship team.

The 86 Celtics team is prolly the greatist team ever put together and lost only 15 games, one could argue they lost quite a few games that year they shouldnt have sleep walking through a few games, but the Spurs arent in the leauge of the Lakers or whoever from these time periods because there simply not as good.

[Duff McCartney]

The game was played on March 17th, 2007. Consider me silly, but thats more then half way into the season, in fact the play offs would only be about 6 weeks from that point.

Ya, what does me showing you a loss to a shitty team 6 weeks before the playoffs that the Spurs won it all in do to prove my point?

Well it doesnt really

Then what the fuck are you arguing? The 86 Celtics weren't the greatest team ever...they lost 15 games. The 95 Bulls only lost ten. And I'm sure they lost to teams they shouldn't have. Even towards the end of the season.

[Max Payne]

Then what the fuck are you arguing? The 86 Celtics weren't the greatest team ever...they lost 15 games. The 95 Bulls only lost ten. And I'm sure they lost to teams they shouldn't have. Even towards the end of the season.

Ya, and the greatist team in the NFL history is considered the 85 Bears, but the 72 Dolphins went 17-0 and the 84 49ers went 18-1 matching the record the Bears had too.

Whats your point? That Celtic team would of mopped that Bulls team, Jordan was great, and he matured in his 30's, but do you think he was going to put up 63 against them at that age like he did when he was in his 20's?

Records arent everything, most people who know what they are talking about would say that Bulls team flurished in a time where talent was deluded and non existant, Im not being a homer dude, the 87 Lakers team was better then that 96 Bulls team too.

Just lay off it man.

[réÐþÁ†µ]

Jordans Bulls won 6 titles plus for all intent and purposes it was two different squads that seperated the 3 titles.

No dispute there.

If there were a time machine, this argument would be relevant but since there is no such thing as real life replay, it aint happening.

[Max Payne]

Jordans Bulls won 6 titles plus for all intent and purposes it was two different squads that seperated the 3 titles.

No dispute there.

If there were a time machine, this argument would be relevant but since there is no such thing as real life replay, it aint happening.

Great Great GREAT point, every day you prove to be out of the loop with Celtic pride and knowledge.

He won 6 titles. no doubt, but like I said, a watered down leauge. He quit in the middle of it all too, legit reason yes, but still quit and prolly cost his team two titles in the process, they could of ran off 8 in a row, definitley 5, those Jazz teams were awesome teams and had the smallest detail gone the other way they win, so if he never retired they prolly win 6 but prolly not against those Jazz teams.

The Celts ran off 8 in a row and 10 out of 11.

So that point isnt even valid cause not even I would say a team full of great hall of famers of the 60's could compete against most great teams, but the 86 Celts vs 95 Bulls is a valid argument to make on who would beat who, cause the main players involved actually did get to play each other.

Its not a coincidence the Jordans dominance of the leauge and winning titles started after the big dogs of the 80's retired or on the last bit of life of their careers.

Sorry people, Bird in his prime, is right there with Jordan, you want to say Jordan is better, thats your choice, flip a coin, but no one can argue that in his prime he is as good as anyone, ever.

Same goes for Magic.

I know those teams had better cast, period. But that doesnt mean that the Celts team isnt better then Jordans best team. Cause they were, I might even throw in the 88 Pistons team as better too.

[H78]

Can this thread just die already?

Everyone's gotten their panties in a knot at some point and it's all because of a fucking football team. Fuck, who gives a shit at this point?

[CrazySicilian]

lol, I like how it went from Belichick to which past NBA team is better.

[Duff McCartney]

Yeah...a league that had Robinson, Olajuwon, O'Neal, Ewing,Mourning, and Malone all in their primes was really watered down.

[koolmike]

Can this thread just die already?

Everyone's gotten their panties in a knot at some point and it's all because of a fucking football team.

:lol:
:lol:

That was like hearing you say "Uncle"

[Max Payne]

Yeah...a league that had Robinson, Olajuwon, O'Neal, Ewing,Mourning, and Malone all in their primes was really watered down.

Other then Malone, I dont think any of those were paired with other super all star hall of famers in there primes.

[Revenant]

this thread has turned into one of the silliest things I've ever read...

[Max Payne]

The thread has only gone up for the same bull shit story that we have all been reading for months.

[H78]

:lol:
:lol:

That was like hearing you say "Uncle"

:alienfu:

You know a thread has jumped the shark when it's about Bill Belichick and Hakim Olajuwon's name ends up getting thrown around.

[Lucio Argento]

:alienfu:

You know a thread has jumped the shark when it's about Bill Belichick and Hakim Olajuwon's name ends up getting thrown around.


Hakeem.... Spell the legend's name right.

[koolmike]

:lol:

[cmurdur]

The 84 49ers are the best team ever. :D

[H78]

Hakeem.... Spell the legend's name right.

I remember thinking to myself, "You should probably look up how to spell his first name and not assume it's the standard spelling before you post."

Then I got lazy. :D

The point's still valid, bitches!

[H78]

The 84 49ers are the best team ever. :D

You damn right muthafucka!

[Duff McCartney]

Other then Malone, I dont think any of those were paired with other super all star hall of famers in there primes.

Oh sorry. Not every team can be like the Boston Celtics and have 3-4 HOF players on their roster at the same time.

[Max Payne]

Except the Lakers.

[Revenant]

Seems to me like the belicheck scandal will probaly be the talk of the offseason at least until free agency starts up..

[IKickAssForTheLord]

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/7844274?MSNHPHMA

muhahaha

[Duff McCartney]

Except the Lakers.

Yeah so what's your point? Just because none of the aforementioned players didn't have a HOF player to play along side them doesn't mean the league was watered down.

Like I said not every team other than the Celtics and Lakers can have 3-4 HOF players.

[Revenant]

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/7844274?MSNHPHMA

muhahaha

and more fuel is doused upon the fire...

[Max Payne]

Yeah so what's your point? Just because none of the aforementioned players didn't have a HOF player to play along side them doesn't mean the league was watered down.

Like I said not every team other than the Celtics and Lakers can have 3-4 HOF players.

I dont think Ive ever made a point.

[Max Payne]

is there a sports mod?

cause this thread is dead

[Duff McCartney]

I dont think Ive ever made a point.

God damn right.

[koolmike]

is there a sports mod?

cause this thread is dead


STFU.

[steelba]

lol.

[H78]

I nominate Warbeast as sports mod.

[steelba]

Does he ever post in this forum?

[H78]

No, I think he hates sports.

[steelba]

:mhehe:

[Max Payne]

God damn right.

But neither have you bub, get off the high horse.

STFU.

not as dead as the Jets chances at a championship but close.

[koolmike]

You wish you were a NYer.

:D

[H78]

This is what Belichick has to say to all of you:

"Don't like me? What do I care, I'm 56 years old and this is what I'm hittin' every night."

http://bostondirtdogs.boston.com/BDD_BB_celts_5.28.08_ap.jpg

[koolmike]

I hit better than that.

[H78]

I hit better than that.

You're also not 56.

Besides, that's a MILF if I've ever seen one. Hot damn! Look at the tats on that woman!

[steelba]

That bitch doesn't look good, with her fake tits, and ulgy face :dsp:

[koolmike]

She's nice for an older woman.

[réÐþÁ†µ]

The man is a smug, cheating prick but in the end. Hes one of the guys just like anybody else.

Take away his abysmal mistake. Im sure anyone out there from any fanbase would take that guy as their coach in a heartbeat as would many, many owners. Put aside what you think of Belichick the person and add Belichick the coach, the guy who keeps a tight ship and runs it smoothly.

Turning former cancers into would be good citizens and you have a quality guy to run your football operations combined with the scouting prowess of Scott Pioil whose had several offers but decided to come back here time and again goes to show the organization and the people involved have pride.

The Jets years back had him lined up as the successor to Parcells. He was there but before he even got started. He jetted outta town. Im sure if you ask any Jets fan back in 1999 if they wanted Parcells longtime Defensive assistant to be the head coach of a then pretty damn good Jet team. They would've said take him a heartbeat. Instead they got Herm Edwards who was a good coach, but not a good playoff coach or a clock manager.

In the end, Belichick the person is a smug, arrogrant prick and the coach is the same personality wise. However in the end, hes one of a handful of guys you'll take in a heartbeat to run your football operations along with a Dungy, Parcells, Holmgren, Shanahan, etc.

Anyone who says who other wise cant really take themselves seriously as an objective football mind IMO.

[IKickAssForTheLord]

nah I wouldn't want him as my coach... say if he got fired or quit the pats.. and he joined my team I don't even know what I would, I would be so disgusted... and thats without "me knowin'" he cheated.

[steelba]

Mike Tomlin is a bust.

[IKickAssForTheLord]

ya momma

[koolmike]

Saw a clip od NE training in the gym today...;what a bunch o' miserable bastards :lol:

[réÐþÁ†µ]

Losing the last game of the season to win another title and go undefeated I would think would be enough for anyone to not want to smile for awhile and maybe then some.

All the talk around here lately is the Celtics and the Sox but nobody is smiling when the Pats are mentioned.

[H78]

Yeah, and I bet at Jets camp they're all singing Pollyanna tunes.