14 year-old gives birth to baby in school bathroom

[Late For Reality]

What is the world coming to?

http://www.myfoxhouston.com/myfox/pages/Home/Detail?contentId=6200599&version=6&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=TSTY&pageId=1.1.1

[choptop2]

Drowned it in the toilet?? Nasty.

[Vampire Lestat]

Such a happy story.:shakehead

[Grendel]

What is the world coming to?Not to minimize the impact to those involved, Late, but the world hasn't come to any place it wasn't already occupying ten or more years ago (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/d/melissa_drexler/index.html?s=oldest&). To be blunt, this story was already "ripped from the headlines" tv drama fodder when you were 8 years old.

What does this story say to you, personally? Is it an issue of sex education, parent/child communication, etc.?

[Max Payne]

How does one go about giving birth without yelling or in pain and NO one notices?

And if this person had it in them to kill the baby, why not just get the fucking abortion (im not pro abortion but it certainly beats this resolution) and be done with it.

This girl should get the harshest penalty availible to her, there is no reason for something like this to ever happen. Dumb enough to try and flush it on top of having the conscience to do it? Come on, I'd say only in Texas but that would insult even them.

[Driden]

I've tried wondering what goes on in the minds of these girls but everytime I do I find so many other alternatives to their decision I can't grasp it.

regardless of parents, lack of protection, clinics, money, etc why couldn't she have cut school and dropped the baby off at a fire station? Why resort to murder?

[hackerslacker]

I was recently watching Oprah on a day off and a 17yo girl gave birth to a fetus and killed it instantly. She got life in prison.
She said she would have her bf stand on her stomach every day to minimize the stomach growth so no one would find out. She said she went to the bathroom and it "fell out" into the toilet, I don't know if she threw it away or what.

Max Payne, in some states an underage abortion needs an adult relative needs to sign off to approve...im sure it went through her head....

I know a woman I worked with and she was a pretty bad mother, her daughter had a kid at 13, and her daughter (the kids mother) is now in rehab for crack/Heroin addiction...and she is only 15.

[Gilly]

That's erm. Fucked up beyond belief.

[pastor_ice43]

She should spend the rest of her life in prison.

[Wrathborne]

thought this was a jamie lynn spears topic for a moment. really foul.

[deathslasher666]

I hate reading shit like this. Just because she's a 14 year old whore who doesn't know to tell the guy to use a condom, she decides to take the life of an innocent life of a little infant whose only breathe of air was its last before it was thrown in the toilet and drowned. I hope she receives the worst possible punishment she can get.

EDIT: There was a discussion on this somewhere else, and before anybody says anything, I'm not advocating the death penalty with my above statement because that would be too severe, even for this. However, it is still a valid opinion in my mind. There's also the possibility that she was raped or something, it doesn't really say, but this still does not change the fact that what she did was wrong and fucked up and that she needs to be punished for this.

[JerkyPuck]

On today's maury show.........

[ZION]

Baytown is not far from Houston, where I live. Saw this on my local news and was sick to my stomach. Glad the Police are taking action. Sad to read stuff like this.

[realizm]

the giving birth at a young age is really common these days so im not suprised

[réÐþÁ†µ]

While its nothing new what im going to say, so I'll just say it. It will only get worse before it gets better on the grand scale IMO.

[deathslasher666]

While its nothing new what im going to say, so I'll just say it. It will only get worse before it gets better on the grand scale IMO.

I unfortunately highly agree with it. It's a sad thought, but the way it's going, it's hard to argue with it.

[Dr. Phibes]

On today's maury show.........
Exactly.

[Grendel]

She should spend the rest of her life in prison.A 14 year-old should get a life sentence?

You running for office, Pastor? Because that's the sort of divorced from reality, campaign speech pontification that's a disaster in practice.

[pastor_ice43]

Really? Because to me, her drowning her newly born child by trying to flush it down the toilet is one of the most disgusting, despicable things anyone could do. What if a 24 year old broke into someone's house, put a gun to a little baby's head and pulled the trigger? What should they get? What this girl did is just as bad if not worse.

[deathslasher666]

Really? Because to me, her drowning her newly born child by trying to flush it down the toilet is one of the most disgusting, despicable things anyone could do. What if a 24 year old broke into someone's house, put a gun to a little baby's head and pulled the trigger? What should they get? What this girl did is just as bad if not worse.

Totally agree.

[Grendel]

Really? Because to me, her drowning her newly born child by trying to flush it down the toilet is one of the most disgusting, despicable things anyone could do. What if a 24 year old broke into someone's house, put a gun to a little baby's head and pulled the trigger? What should they get? What this girl did is just as bad if not worse.But she's not a 24 year-old woman, is she?

I don't know of anyone who'd argue that a 14 year-old possesses the same faculties as an adult. Recognizing that fact neither minimizes the act, nor argues that there shouldn't be consequences. Children committing heinous acts shocks the senses, but that shock is no justification for ignoring the realities of the differences between those children and grown adults.

[Misfit]

dont think the 14 year old should get life in prison.....she is only 14 what she needs is serious therapy

[pastor_ice43]

But she's not a 24 year-old woman, is she?

I don't know of anyone who'd argue that a 14 year-old possesses the same faculties as an adult. Recognizing that fact neither minimizes the act, nor argues that there shouldn't be consequences. Children committing heinous acts shocks the senses, but that shock is no justification for ignoring the realities of the differences between those children and grown adults.

BS. If it was a six year old kid, It'd be different, fact is, I knew right from wrong when I was 14. And though I obviously know more about the world now as a 23 year old, I damn sure knew what murder, and what drowning a baby was when I was 14. This girl had the mental capabilities to have sex, hide a pregnancy for a number of months, and head to the bathroom when she knew she was in labor. She knew exactly what she was doing, and more then likely planned on killing the child for some time before it was even born. She deserves to be tried as an adult.

[Misfit]

truth is people still are not mature enough to determine right from wrong at 14...you didnt , i didnt.

[deathslasher666]

truth is people still are not mature enough to determine right from wrong at 14...you didnt , i didnt.


I don't know, when I was 14, I knew drowning a baby in the toilet was wrong. Hell, I knew this at 13, and even 12. Damn, I must have been above average when I was these ages.

Maybe not life, but she still needs to do some time. If she doesn't get punished, what's to motivate other 14 year old girls from not doing the same thing? That seems to be why the youth today (which I'm apart of) is so fucked up. Everyone always seems to put all the blame on things around the kids, and not on them. Without proper punishment, hardly anything is learned. I know this because I have many deliquent friends who rarely get in trouble for what they do, which is why they keep on doing it. This girl needs to realize what she did was her own fault. She's lucky she didn't pull this crap as an adult because in Texas, from what I read, this act is punishable by death.

It's funny, I posted this article on another message board, and you wouldn't believe how many people were defending her and saying she shouldn't be punished by this because they say she was under pressure. They say she was too young to deal with this, which made me wonder how old they think you have to be to know not to try to flush a baby down the toilet. I had a friend who had her baby about a year ago, and she wasn't going insane about it nor did she try to drown the baby. But I guess she doesn't count because she was 15 when she had the baby.

[pastor_ice43]

truth is people still are not mature enough to determine right from wrong at 14...you didnt , i didnt.

Are you serious? So you're saying at the age of 14, you didn't know that taking a gun and shooting someone was wrong? Please. I was six the first time I ever watched Halloween, and I even knew then that killing someone was wrong. People who think like that are the ones that make excuses for people when they do something wrong because of their age. B U L L S H I T. You show me a 14 year old that doesn't know that drowning a baby in the toilet is wrong, and I'll show you someone who's so mentally disabled, that they don't even know what sex is, let alone know enough to do it, and they definitely would have the mental capacity to hide a pregnancy for as long as this girl had to. It wouldn't have been a simple "mom and dad and teachers don't realize it". She had to take steps to hide it. Like I said, she knew what she was doing. To say that a normal 14 year old seriously wouldn't know enough to know drowning an innocent baby is wrong is idiotic. I suppose thats why 15 and 16 year olds should play games like GTA cause "they just don't know" right? Well I've been playing "mature" games since well before I was a teenager, and I always knew right from wrong\fantasy from reality when playing them. This girl knew what she was doing, and she knew it was wrong.

[Creator_and_Destroyer]

I'm sorry but are you a therapist? Do you have a degree in psychology? Did you know the girl personally? Talk to her on a daily basis? Know her background? Yes, at 14, I'm sure she knew what she was doing was wrong. I'm sure she didn't simply inhale and exhale until the baby burst out of her cunt and then she simply flushed it down the toilet. I bet there were tears, sobs, moans and groans of disgust way before and way after. And if not, then yes, she's psycho. She is in a state to the point where the plead is insanity and she didn't know what the Hell she was doing, other than doing what she believed was the right thing to do. If she departmentalized her mind to the point where there were no tears, no sadness in her eyes and this was just another day, then she is crazy and needs help.

I hope she gets the therapy she needs. Does she deserve a punishment? I don't know about time in prison. I think time in a mental institution would benefit her more than time in prison. All the prison time is going to do is break her down to the point where she kills herself. You probably don't care and that would figure.

Yes, it is sad and fucked up what she did and what happened. We need to make sure she realizes this, make sure she learns this is not the proper behavior in life. However, I blame the parents, I blame the schools, and I blame today's society too. I don't take the blame away from her, but I place blame on those faculties as well.

Sitting here, preaching about how you're perfect and knew better at 14, but you didn't have this happen to you. You can argue that you'd never do this, but did you go through her life? Did you have everything that happened to her happen to you? I don't think so. I know you haven't.

However, you sit on your high fucking horse, proclaiming how you know better because you're 'perfect.' This world is fucked up; start placing blame on the real sources and stop trying to condemn people to Hell for mistakes. You are not God and you don't have the right to Judge. Plain and simple.

[GruesomeDuece]

Unless age is a factor, I thought that the parental instinct, especially for mothers, was a very strong force. There had to be some serious problems in her life for her to do what she did, reasons which may have made sense to her at the time, but it still doesn't make it right of course.

Regardless of her motives, she made it so that her newborn baby's first breaths were filled with dingy water from a public school restroom toilet. Blame sex ed, blame the parents, blame the boyfriend, blame movies, music and television, or hell even blame the president if you want. The fact of the matter is, if she had the will to do something this heinous, what else could she do? Capital punishment may be too harsh, but time in a correctional/mental health facility is definitely something this young lady needs.

[deathslasher666]

I'm sorry but are you a therapist? Do you have a degree in psychology? Did you know the girl personally? Talk to her on a daily basis? Know her background? Yes, at 14, I'm sure she knew what she was doing was wrong. I'm sure she didn't simply inhale and exhale until the baby burst out of her cunt and then she simply flushed it down the toilet. I bet there were tears, sobs, moans and groans of disgust way before and way after. And if not, then yes, she's psycho. She is in a state to the point where the plead is insanity and she didn't know what the Hell she was doing, other than doing what she believed was the right thing to do. If she departmentalized her mind to the point where there were no tears, no sadness in her eyes and this was just another day, then she is crazy and needs help.

That whole plead of insanity thing is thrown around so damn much, it's fuckin' annoying. Anyone these days can kill someone and plead to be insane, but when it comes down to it, a good majority of those pleads are a bunch of bull shit, same can very well be in this situation. And even if there were "tears, sobs, moans and groans of disgust," it still doesn't change the fact that she murdered a human, and an infant at that, which, in Texas, where this took place, can be punishable by death, but she's too young for the death penalty. I'm sure she knew what she was doing. Now, I'm sure she felt bad about it, but I'm wondering why her lawyer stated publically that she never knew she was pregnant, never saw the baby born, and never heard it cry. So...I'm guessing the baby kind of grew in her without her knowing. She probably just assumed she was becoming very fat. And somehow, it just slipped out without her knowing, alive, into the toilet, and died, but was very quiet about it. Sounds pretty sketchy to me....

I hope she gets the therapy she needs. Does she deserve a punishment? I don't know about time in prison. I think time in a mental institution would benefit her more than time in prison. All the prison time is going to do is break her down to the point where she kills herself. You probably don't care and that would figure.

She needs both. Without proper punishment, what kind of message would that convey? "Hey girls, if you accidently get pregnant, don't worry about going through an abortion, just have it and kill it. Then, you'll only have to get therapy, but no punishment." The fact is, there have been many people who have killed with mental problems who are in straight up prison, some even on death row. Their actions may have been more extreme, however, the fact is that, even in their state of mind, they are being punished. Why shouldn't this girl? I'm not saying death penalty is right, but in addition to therapy, she should be recieving a proper punishment for her actions.

Yes, it is sad and fucked up what she did and what happened. We need to make sure she realizes this, make sure she learns this is not the proper behavior in life. However, I blame the parents, I blame the schools, and I blame today's society too. I don't take the blame away from her, but I place blame on those faculties as well.

The only thing I blame the parents and schools on is not realizing that she was pregnant in the first place, and I'm sure there was a lack of sex education taught to her, so I'll place that blame on them for that. However, in the case of the killing of the child, I blame her and only her. The one thing I blame on society is the point I've been argueing; I blame society for not punishing those who need to be punished. Without the proper punishment, it conveys that people don't really give a shit what you do. If she is not punished, it will just convey this anymore. People need to be punished for their bad actions.

Sitting here, preaching about how you're perfect and knew better at 14, but you didn't have this happen to you. You can argue that you'd never do this, but did you go through her life? Did you have everything that happened to her happen to you? I don't think so. I know you haven't.

Neither have I had this happen to me, however, I've had a friend who went through this. She got pregnant in her Freshman year, and had the baby in her Sophomore year. She didn't try to hide it though. And when she finally had it, she didn't go all bat shit fuckin' stupid and kill it. She had the baby, and now she's back to her normal life, and loving her new baby boy. However, I guess that doesn't mean anything to you or the others' who are trying to preach for her because my friend was 15 when she had the baby. I've already read the interviews with her friends. They said she was happy-go-lucky, friendly, someone who would never hurt anyone and was normal. However, my friend wasn't this lucky. Back in our Middle School, in the second half of the year, she was expelled for drinking alcohol on campus. At the next school she went to, she was also expelled from there for possesion of Triple C. So, she was both on alcohol and drugs (she obviously quit after she was expelled a second time). So, if you were asked "who do you think, out of these two, would have done it?" more people would say my friend. But no, she didn't do anything like that. My point; not all people that age would do the same thing, so it's pretty bull shit to bring her age into this and say shit like "she was too young to know what she was doing". Age shouldn't matter if they know it's wrong, and she did.

However, you sit on your high fucking horse, proclaiming how you know better because you're 'perfect.' This world is fucked up; start placing blame on the real sources and stop trying to condemn people to Hell for mistakes. You are not God and you don't have the right to Judge. Plain and simple.

Since when does anyone have any right to judge about anything? That phrase is thrown around so much, nobody realizes that that's what humans do. They judge each other, and they always will. Nobody may be in a position to judge her, but that's not going to stop anyone, including me. And do you know why this world is fucked up? Because of people like this always actingbefore they think and because of people who are willing to defend her from any kind of punishment. And I personally don't hear him stating anything about him being "perfect." I'm sure he'd say he's not perfect. He's saying, and so am I, that at age 14, no matter what the situation, he knew it was wrong to killl a baby. I don't give a fuck what kind of situation I would be in, and believe me, I've been in som pretty insane situations, I would never even think about killing anyone, let alone a baby. The real source to blame is her. No one forced her to kill he baby, no one had a gun up to her. It was her own decision, and she should be punished for it. And I don't know about him, but me, I'm an atheist, so I don't believe there is a God to judge people for their wrong doings, but that really has nothing to do with anything. I'm willing to bet that if she decided to shoot the baby with a gun, peoples' opinions would be different, but somehow, I don't see why. It's the same thing.


So, in closing; there is blame to place on others for not noticing she was pregnant and not helping her and informing her. However, when it comes down to the murder of the baby, she's the only one to blame. People need to learn they need to take responsibility for their own actions, no matter what the situation is.

For me mostly, it's more of an issue of the baby. This baby, had done nothing to be considered someone who deserves anything bad on them. It hasn't been able to do anything to add to the fucked up part of this world. It is an innocent and new life. However, despite this, this baby only had a few breathes of life, if that, until it was plunged into the water. It's first and last thing it saw was probably the bottom of a toilet bowl through the water. Poor thing probably tried to struggle as much as it could, cried as much as it could, sitting in the toilet bowl while the mother tried to flush it down. The poor thing never had a chance at life. Never got to do and see the things all of us did. It's unfair and bull shit that she decided to take it's life away just because she wanted to make her life easier. If you want to add the judgement of God statement, then consider this; Do you believe she was in the position to decide whether this child should live or not? Don't you think it's "God's" position to decide who lives or dies? And not others? Do you really think she was in a higher postion to kill a baby than pastor_ice43 is to judge her on her action? Because if you do, I'd say you're pretty fucked up.

[Misfit]

Are you serious? So you're saying at the age of 14, you didn't know that taking a gun and shooting someone was wrong? Please. I was six the first time I ever watched Halloween, and I even knew then that killing someone was wrong. People who think like that are the ones that make excuses for people when they do something wrong because of their age. B U L L S H I T. You show me a 14 year old that doesn't know that drowning a baby in the toilet is wrong, and I'll show you someone who's so mentally disabled, that they don't even know what sex is, let alone know enough to do it, and they definitely would have the mental capacity to hide a pregnancy for as long as this girl had to. It wouldn't have been a simple "mom and dad and teachers don't realize it". She had to take steps to hide it. Like I said, she knew what she was doing. To say that a normal 14 year old seriously wouldn't know enough to know drowning an innocent baby is wrong is idiotic. I suppose thats why 15 and 16 year olds should play games like GTA cause "they just don't know" right? Well I've been playing "mature" games since well before I was a teenager, and I always knew right from wrong\fantasy from reality when playing them. This girl knew what she was doing, and she knew it was wrong.

at 14 when in a special situation the 14 year old tends not to make the rational/mature decision. not justifyin what she did, but i am trying to find reason for her actions, which is why life is too much and therapy is needed

[pastor_ice43]

I'm sorry but are you a therapist? Do you have a degree in psychology? Did you know the girl personally? Talk to her on a daily basis? Know her background? Yes, at 14, I'm sure she knew what she was doing was wrong. I'm sure she didn't simply inhale and exhale until the baby burst out of her cunt and then she simply flushed it down the toilet. I bet there were tears, sobs, moans and groans of disgust way before and way after. And if not, then yes, she's psycho. She is in a state to the point where the plead is insanity and she didn't know what the Hell she was doing, other than doing what she believed was the right thing to do. If she departmentalized her mind to the point where there were no tears, no sadness in her eyes and this was just another day, then she is crazy and needs help.

I hope she gets the therapy she needs. Does she deserve a punishment? I don't know about time in prison. I think time in a mental institution would benefit her more than time in prison. All the prison time is going to do is break her down to the point where she kills herself. You probably don't care and that would figure.

Yes, it is sad and fucked up what she did and what happened. We need to make sure she realizes this, make sure she learns this is not the proper behavior in life. However, I blame the parents, I blame the schools, and I blame today's society too. I don't take the blame away from her, but I place blame on those faculties as well.

Sitting here, preaching about how you're perfect and knew better at 14, but you didn't have this happen to you. You can argue that you'd never do this, but did you go through her life? Did you have everything that happened to her happen to you? I don't think so. I know you haven't.

However, you sit on your high fucking horse, proclaiming how you know better because you're 'perfect.' This world is fucked up; start placing blame on the real sources and stop trying to condemn people to Hell for mistakes. You are not God and you don't have the right to Judge. Plain and simple.

You'd be a great defense lawyer for all the scum bags out there who like to plead insanity, of which 90% are BS. Face it, some people simply have no morality, and can kill or do something evil like that without remorse. It doesn't mean they're insane and it doesn't mean they aren't of a sound mind. I suppose those teens who just beat the shit out of that poor girl need help too since none of them have any remorse?? No, sorry, they deserve to go to jail, just like this girl does. I don't think this girl simply did it without shedding a tear, but because she knew it was wrong and it upset her, it makes it ok? No. If she truly is insane, then she needs to go to a mental hospital, however the events leading up to the birth shows me that she isn't. This is no different then a girl at prom having a baby in the restroom and throwing it in the trash. This girl got pregnant, realized if she wanted an abortion she would have to tell her parents, so decided to hide the pregnancy and take care of it herself when the time came.

at 14 when in a special situation the 14 year old tends not to make the rational/mature decision. not justifyin what she did, but i am trying to find reason for her actions, which is why life is too much and therapy is needed

Hey, if she truly is insane, then by all means get her help. However sometimes, people just don't care. I've seen quite a few things come out of this generation of teens to tell me that they have a morality problem. Look at that girl that just had the shit beat out of her by like 8 other teens. They show no remorse, they don't care, they did it to post the video on myspace. They don't need or deserve help, they need prison. Just because something this ghastly happens, and it's perpetrated by a 14 year old, doesn't mean that there has to be a "rational explanation" for it. The explanation could just be....She got pregnant, couldn't get an abortion cause mommy and daddy would find out, and decided to take care of it herself when the time came. If thats the case, the girl deserves to be behind bars for a long long time.

[Grendel]

BS. If it was a six year old kid, It'd be different, fact is, I knew right from wrong when I was 14. And though I obviously know more about the world now as a 23 year old, I damn sure knew what murder, and what drowning a baby was when I was 14. This girl had the mental capabilities to have sex, hide a pregnancy for a number of months, and head to the bathroom when she knew she was in labor. She knew exactly what she was doing, and more then likely planned on killing the child for some time before it was even born. She deserves to be tried as an adult.Calling something "BS" doesn't make it so. The law has long-recognized the distinction that you deny exists. That difference in the criminal justice system's handling of child v. adult is the very reason every story identifies her only as "14 year-old girl."

Texas is hardly known for being "soft on crime" and yet their law reflects the same understanding. As you can see, here (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/whenkidsgetlife/etc/map.html), in that state, juveniles are ineligible for LWOP sentences, so that's not even on the table, in this case.

[WarBeast]

Well, it's against the law to fuck a 14 year old because they supposedly lack the mental and emotional maturity to handle all that goes with sexual relations... I guess this could be taken as a situation that lends credence to that claim.

[pastor_ice43]

Calling something "BS" doesn't make it so. The law has long-recognized the distinction that you deny exists. That difference in the criminal justice system's handling of child v. adult is the very reason every story identifies her only as "14 year-old girl."

Texas is hardly known for being "soft on crime" and yet their law reflects the same understanding. As you can see, here (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/whenkidsgetlife/etc/map.html), in that state, juveniles are ineligible for LWOP sentences, so that's not even on the table, in this case.

Minors are tried as adults all the time. Regardless of what the law states, I, and I'm sure most people can tell you from experience that at the age of 14, they knew drowing a baby was wrong. Obviously, I didn't think she was going to get a life sentence, but that doesn't mean she doesn't deserve it. In any event, she deserves the max for what they charge her.

[Grendel]

Minors are tried as adults all the time. Regardless of what the law states, I, and I'm sure most people can tell you from experience that at the age of 14, they knew drowing a baby was wrong. Obviously, I didn't think she was going to get a life sentence, but that doesn't mean she doesn't deserve it. In any event, she deserves the max for what they charge her."Tried as an adult" is something of a misnomer. If the penalties upon adjudication are not 100% equivalent, simply exiting the juvenile system doesn't mean that you're really being tried as an adult--as is the case where there are age limits on certain sentences.

What a 14 year-old allegedly knows and what plays into the decision-making process of a pregnant 14 year-old are two distinctly different things.

Similarly, her deserving "the max" for her available charges--which was not up for much debate, btw--is also distinctly different from your initial hopes for a life sentence.