Clean coal, A myth?

[Elduardo]

Interesting article on Time.com on clean coal:

http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1870599,00.html?xid=site-cnn-partner

We have heard the phrase "energy independent" enough times over the past year but I wonder if those saying it have any idea what it means or if it's even possible.

There are 2 main problems with our current energy situation, the adverse impacts on the environment and the dependence on questionable nations for supply.

The reality, for me, is that there is no realistic plan B to replace oil powered cars or coal powered power plants. I was encouraged when I first heard about clean coal but this article puts some holes in the idea.

Biofuels like ethanol are not the answer due to their impact on the food supply. More production of corn etc leaves less land for production of food. We're already seeing food shortages in some parts of the world.

Electric cars may get us off of oil but first and foremost our current electric grid cannot support the addition of millions of electric powered cars. Even if it could, we get most of our electricity from burning coal which has huge negative environmental impacts as indicated in the article.

Plus keep in mind that our dependence on oil goes way beyond cars and home heating. Many products such as plastics and even pharmeceuticals are made with petro-chemicals (contain oil).

Hydrogen powered cars are way too expensive and the creation of hydrogen requires.....electricity.

So basically we've learned nothing in the past 30+ years, including the recent spike of oil and gasoline prices. Now that prices have come back down you don't hear too much talk about it. And even if you did, it would be just talk because there is no viable plan B.

[Searcher]

We should do nothing, and let the market take care of it.

[Elduardo]

We should do nothing, and let the market take care of it.

Do you have anything to bring to the table besides petty digs?

[Searcher]

I jammed with Petty Digs once. Cool cat. Although I don't see what he has to do with this discussion.

[Elduardo]

Apparently not.

[Luris Blear]

The people who want these things are pushing hard enough that the market has long since taken notice.

There are a lot of issues: A new breed of televangelists haven taken over much of the environmental cause and diluted it severely for their own gain. Other environmental issues can become so entwined with the government that they produce industry for their friends more than any reasonable solution.

Technology has never sprung up over night. Laws and bureaucracy can slow this process down even further. Some of these laws protect us, and some of them protect less able businesses with stronger political ties.

In the middle: people want their lives to get better instead of worse. People do not want to give up the things that make their life good. People want to be able to see their lives get better while they spend less of their gains in the process. We don't just want $1.25 a gallon for gas: we want to be able to drive 100 miles on two gallons of it. Better for us, better for the earth.

Technology and the markets can take advantage of this middle ground. Light bulbs that only need to be changed every five years and save enough electricity to pay for themselves meet all needs. Regular cars that see 25-30 miles per gallon as opposed to 5-12 come closer to meeting all needs. Hybrid vehicles are a mixed blessing.

Solar power meets all needs. Creating the components of a solar device is extremely expensive at this time, and starting a new business requires astronomical amounts of money. However, this means that demand is high and that there are astronomical amounts of money to be made. Believe me, there are people on their way to collecting that money.

The free market is one part of the solution.

Many recycling centers no longer require that recyclables be separated by type. This is not a free market issue when "green" governments basically impose it on their people, but does also add to the solution.

The free market is appreciated by people who see that it can provide both a better life and a greener future.

[Grendel]

Solar power meets all needs. Creating the components of a solar device is extremely expensive at this time, and starting a new business requires astronomical amounts of money. However, this means that demand is high and that there are astronomical amounts of money to be made. Believe me, there are people on their way to collecting that money.A situation which should help increase the feasibility of electric cars.

Taking real advantage of solar and even wind power will demand long overdue improvements to our electrical infrastructure which, in turn, will address the aforementioned grid limitations affecting a turn to electric vehicles.

[Elduardo]

Unless we're going to increase nuclear power (which will take years and is opposed by Obama), then you still can't get away from the fact the increased electricity use such as from electric cars will cause increased coal burning which will have extreme negative impact to our environment.

Clean coal to me was encouraging but this article seems to cast doubt on it's viability.

[Grendel]

Unless we're going to increase nuclear power (which will take years and is opposed by Obama), then you still can't get away from the fact the increased electricity use such as from electric cars will cause increased coal burning which will have extreme negative impact to our environment.You can with LB's addition of solar into the equation. The infrastructure improvements need to be made, regardless to handle load and improve reliability. With the amount of energy lost in transmission through aging and inefficient lines, you address that issue along with a cleaner source like solar, there's no need to either generate the waste or the costs that come with new nuclear facilities.

[Luris Blear]

Solar is also still years in the making, as I understand it. We have the technology, but there is a reason I described the latest and greatest as requiring "astronomical amounts of money."

Solar will be one of the long-term goals. We still need solutions between now and our future goal in order to keep the rest of society moving forward.

[Elduardo]

Similar to the problem with biofuels, I do not believe that it is possible to implement a sufficient amount of solar panels to power a huge population of electric cars.

Problem is that demand is only going to increase as countries like India and China start to emulate the driving habits that we have in the US.

As much as the government has to support alternative fuel sources it also has to encourage and even reward conservation. I believe in capitalism obviously but there are times when the market left alone won't produce desirable results such as in environmental areas of concern.

[RIP]

So then the question becomes...what do we do?

[Elduardo]

That's sorta my point here. Politicians and others are throwing around buzzwords like "energy independence", "biofuels", etc but it doesn't seem like they are fully informed as to what they mean.

I think one thing the government should immediately do is find ways to encourage conservation amongst the citizens. This could include incentives for companies that allow workers to telecommute and support for easier recycling programs.

Beyond that I think we need to get back to the lab because I don't think the long term answer is out there yet.

[RIP]

http://www.factcheck.org/politics/clean_coal_confrontation.html


Factcheck.org ran a nice little piece on clean coal. A lengthy but informative read.