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RIP
05-24-2009, 03:37 AM
They May Not Want The Bomb
And other unexpected truths.

By Fareed Zakaria | NEWSWEEK
Published May 23, 2009
From the magazine issue dated Jun 1, 2009

Everything you know about Iran is wrong, or at least more complicated than you think. Take the bomb. The regime wants to be a nuclear power but could well be happy with a peaceful civilian program (which could make the challenge it poses more complex). What's the evidence? Well, over the last five years, senior Iranian officials at every level have repeatedly asserted that they do not intend to build nuclear weapons. President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has quoted the regime's founding father, Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini, who asserted that such weapons were "un-Islamic." The country's Supreme Leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, issued a fatwa in 2004 describing the use of nuclear weapons as immoral. In a subsequent sermon, he declared that "developing, producing or stockpiling nuclear weapons is forbidden under Islam." Last year Khamenei reiterated all these points after meeting with the head of the International Atomic Energy Agency, Mohamed ElBaradei. Now, of course, they could all be lying. But it seems odd for a regime that derives its legitimacy from its fidelity to Islam to declare constantly that these weapons are un-Islamic if it intends to develop them. It would be far shrewder to stop reminding people of Khomeini's statements and stop issuing new fatwas against nukes.

Following a civilian nuclear strategy has big benefits. The country would remain within international law, simply asserting its rights under the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty, a position that has much support across the world. That would make comprehensive sanctions against Iran impossible. And if Tehran's aim is to expand its regional influence, it doesn't need a bomb to do so. Simply having a clear "breakout" capacity—the ability to weaponize within a few months—would allow it to operate with much greater latitude and impunity in the Middle East and Central Asia.

Iranians aren't suicidal. In an interview last week, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu described the Iranian regime as "a messianic, apocalyptic cult." In fact, Iran has tended to behave in a shrewd, calculating manner, advancing its interests when possible, retreating when necessary. The Iranians allied with the United States and against the Taliban in 2001, assisting in the creation of the Karzai government. They worked against the United States in Iraq, where they feared the creation of a pro-U.S. puppet on their border. Earlier this year, during the Gaza war, Israel warned Hizbullah not to launch rockets against it, and there is much evidence that Iran played a role in reining in their proxies. Iran's ruling elite is obsessed with gathering wealth and maintaining power. The argument made by those—including many Israelis for coercive sanctions against Iran is that many in the regime have been squirreling away money into bank accounts in Dubai and Switzerland for their children and grandchildren. These are not actions associated with people who believe that the world is going to end soon.

One of Netanyahu's advisers said of Iran, "Think Amalek." The Bible says that the Amalekites were dedicated enemies of the Jewish people. In 1 Samuel 15, God says, "Go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass." Now, were the president of Iran and his advisers to have cited a religious text that gave divine sanction for the annihilation of an entire race, they would be called, well, messianic.

Iran isn't a dictatorship. It is certainly not a democracy. The regime jails opponents, closes down magazines and tolerates few challenges to its authority. But neither is it a monolithic dictatorship. It might be best described as an oligarchy, with considerable debate and dissent within the elites. Even the so-called Supreme Leader has a constituency, the Assembly of Experts, who selected him and whom he has to keep happy. Ahmadinejad is widely seen as the "mad mullah" who runs the country, but he is not the unquestioned chief executive and is actually a thorn in the side of the clerical establishment. He is a layman with no family connections to major ayatollahs—which makes him a rare figure in the ruling class. He was not initially the favored candidate of the Supreme Leader in the 2005 election. Even now the mullahs clearly dislike him, and he, in turn, does things deliberately designed to undermine their authority. Iran might be ready to deal. We can't know if a deal is possible since we've never tried to negotiate one, not directly. While the regime appears united in its belief that Iran has the right to a civilian nuclear program—a position with broad popular support—some leaders seem sensitive to the costs of the current approach. It is conceivable that these "moderates" would appreciate the potential benefits of limiting their nuclear program, including trade, technology and recognition by the United States. The Iranians insist they must be able to enrich uranium on their own soil. One proposal is for this to take place in Iran but only under the control of an international consortium. It's not a perfect solution because the Iranians could—if they were very creative and dedicated—cheat. But neither is it perfect from the Iranian point of view because it would effectively mean a permanent inspections regime in their country. But both sides might get enough of what they consider crucial for it to work. Why not try this before launching the next Mideast war?

© 2009
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Good little editorial. Nice to have some perspective tempered against the fear-mongering (which is all you get when it comes to Iran). Iran is certainly not an innocent country, but neither is the U.S. (Especially when it comes to the way we have treated them over the last fifty years.)

Grendel
05-26-2009, 04:00 PM
Always liked Fareed Zakaria's commentary. Guy has a pretty impeccable resume, and he's one individual whom I believe when he claims "centrism."

toxicangel19
05-29-2009, 11:58 PM
Its their whole "we want to see Isreal wiped off the map" statement that rubs me the wrong way..i just don't know something tells me not to count out this Iranian president who took part in the 1981 us embassy crisis....

lunatic
06-02-2009, 04:43 PM
I read some articles on the Third Reich printed in the countries that later fought WWII against the Germans - same leitmotif: they aren't bad, they're reasonable, they're not capable of barbarism, they're against brutal Bolsheviks, etc. Kennedy Sr., anyone?
Another gang refused to believe Stalin &Co. were capable of Big Terror and pictured the Soviet Union as a "promise".
So what is Iran: new threat or paper tiger? Why should I rely on Fareed's opinion - has he always been correct? My people lost millions in Germany, Central Europe and Soviet Union last century. Are we at risk again? I think so.
However, to me the more dangerous enemy is RIP who writes "Iran is certainly not an innocent country, but neither is the U.S. (Especially when it comes to the way we have treated them over the last fifty years.)" Blame your country first - what else to expect from "liberal" mind who would probably care less about some Jews when there's an opportunity to kick "Evil America" once again. (Unless he's talking about that walking idiot Carter who did damage to the better regime in Iran).
What say leftists?

Sutter Kane
06-02-2009, 05:16 PM
They want a bomb. To think otherwise would be idealistic and foolish.

WarBeast
06-03-2009, 02:32 AM
For the sake of argument... let's say the global community says "Okay, Iran... go ahead and do your nuclear program..." Iran then goes back on its assurances that it will be a purely innocent program of electricity generation and makes a nuclear warhead or a dozen or a hundred... what then? What would they do with those nukes?

Would they actually use their new arsenal on Israel or whoever, thus ensuring the swift and immediate annihilation of their entire country from the face of the earth in retaliation? Your own total and complete obliteration would seem to make such a victory seem a bit unsatisfying.

Would they sell said armaments to terrorist groups that one day may disagree with them and might use those bombs on them? History is full of lessons where the weapons you give your friends one day, will be the weapons being fired at your ass the next... In a part of the world where alliances rise and crumble constantly and have done so since the dawn of civilization, I'd like to think that Iran is shrewd enough to have learned from it... besides... Iran gets a nuclear weapon, then next thing you know Hamas blows up Jerusalem... who do think Israel/US is going to retaliate against first?

OR....

Would they just become more of a cocky pain in the ass in the global community?

Personally, I don't think it would be anything more than the latter... The ultimate fact is Nukes make a country relevant. If you don't have nukes, you ain't shit... Look at Pakistan... do you think we would've given two shits and a fart about invading Pakistan to get at the fleeing Taliban/AlQeda that they have been harboring, if they didn't have nukes? Nope... we would've been up that country's ass like a lard-slathered buttplug by now... but they got nukes, so we handle them with kiddy gloves.

I feel that Iran wants nothing more than to join the club of swaggering nuclear stud-muffin countries with its own atomic cock swingin' in it's BVD's.

Elduardo
06-20-2009, 08:41 PM
Hard pressed to make a fact-based case for any sort of moral equivalence between the US and Iran.

Dr. Phibes
06-20-2009, 08:44 PM
Hard pressed to make a fact-based case for any sort of moral equivalence between the US and Iran.

Here, here.

Elduardo
06-20-2009, 08:50 PM
Not really the point anyways though. Countries that have nukes have all agreed that further proliferation should be stopped.

Ultimate end game should be to eliminate nuclear weapons altogether but that is a more complicated endeavor.

RIP
06-26-2009, 12:40 AM
Countries that have nukes have all agreed that further proliferation should be stopped.


The exceptions being Israel, Pakistan, India, and now NK.

WarBeast
06-26-2009, 02:45 AM
The exceptions being Israel, Pakistan, India, and now NK.

and those that are keeping said proliferation on the down-low...

I have a hard time believing that any "nuclear-power" nation is really stopping their production of warheads... I have a damn good feelin' that they are just building those nukes off the radar...

Elduardo
06-26-2009, 04:02 PM
Not logical to me to allow N.Korea and Iran to have nukes just because India, Pakistan, and Israel have them.

Grendel
06-28-2009, 06:45 PM
Not logical to me to allow N.Korea and Iran to have nukes just because India, Pakistan, and Israel have them.I don't believe anyone's saying those nations "should" have nuclear weapons. What that state of affairs does say is that the U.S. commitment to nonproliferation and the conditions of the NPT is lax and that we're more than willing to look the other way when it's convenient to do so.

And no, "North Korea and Iran aren't Israel and India." But that's just an excuse for our double-standard, and a weak one at that. Of course they're not the same, but the NPT doesn't make exceptions for countries we like and/or trust.

Elduardo
06-29-2009, 10:30 AM
I've never supported the idea that it's okay for allies of ours to violate the NPT. This is the problem and complexity of the current international law that we have set up. US looks the other way on India and Israel, France looked the other way on Iraq but is worried about Iran. China looks the other way on North Korea and Iran. Russia looks the other way on Iraq, Iran, North Korea.

The current way of doing this is not working.

lunatic
06-29-2009, 04:29 PM
I've never supported the idea that it's okay for allies of ours to violate the NPT. This is the problem and complexity of the current international law that we have set up. US looks the other way on India and Israel, France looked the other way on Iraq but is worried about Iran. China looks the other way on North Korea and Iran. Russia looks the other way on Iraq, Iran, North Korea.

The current way of doing this is not working.

If I may I want to correct one thing in your post - when Israel was working on a nuclear reactor it was France who helped Israelis not USA. Up until late 60-es USA was not an Israel's ally. It's another myth on the history of the relationship between USA and the Jewish State. For Israel to have the nuclear weapons was a matter of survival. Sad but true. And if Mother Russia/former Evil Empire has it, why should we worry about India and Israel?

Elduardo
06-29-2009, 04:41 PM
If I may I want to correct one thing in your post - when Israel was working on a nuclear reactor it was France who helped Israelis not USA. Up until late 60-es USA was not an Israel's ally. It's another myth on the history of the relationship between USA and the Jewish State. For Israel to have the nuclear weapons was a matter of survival. Sad but true. And if Mother Russia/former Evil Empire has it, why should we worry about India and Israel?

The difference is the nuclear non-proliferation treaty.

And the US blocks any UN actions on Israel.

Grendel
06-29-2009, 06:02 PM
Up until late 60-es USA was not an Israel's ally. It's another myth on the history of the relationship between USA and the Jewish State.Given that the Jewish State has only existed in its present form since 1948, by your own measure 2/3 of its history has seen a positive relationship between the two nations. That's not mythical, nor is the enormous amount of military aid apportioned to Israel, currently around $3B per year. At a total of over $101B (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.) since '48 you don't get much real-er.