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  1. #1
    too many BANNED MOFOs
    Bo-rack Obama mutha fucka
     
    thorn_man's Avatar
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    Race wins, homosexuality loses

    There's no doubt that the election of Barack Obama means African Americans have come very far in this country, but another minority seems to have had their simple civil rights violated instead during the past election.
    Opponents of gay-marriage went three for three with successfully installing a constitutional amendment that defines marriage between one man and one woman in the state of Florida, Arizona and California. The state of Arkansas also successfully managed to ban homosexuals, and all other unmarried couples, from the right to adopt a child.

    Marriage Bans:

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20081105/..._initiatives_1

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081105/...KpRnJqaElvzwcF

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081105/...iage_arizona_1

    Adoption Ban

    http://www.usatoday.com/news/politic.../ar.htm?csp=34

    :shakehead
    Hopefully the one good thing coming out of a democrat-controlled washington will be the final nation-wide installation of civil rights for every citizen.

    ***edit***
    the title is kind of strange sounding, but you guys know what I meant.

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  2. #2
    anti-social worker
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    Grendel's Avatar
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    California's Proposition Hate is one of the most disgusting things I've seen come down the pike in some time. 18,000 families were just told they don't count in the eyes of the law, thanks largely to millions of dollars in out-of-state funds the Mormon church poured into Pro-8 advertising. Tired of being maligned by other Christian denominations, it looks like they're trying to ingratiate themselves by proving they can be just a bigoted as the rest of the them. I heard a suit is being filed challenging the Constitutionality of the amendment, itself.

    I can only hope they're on strong enough legal ground to succeed and enjoin this garbage from being effected until then.

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    Patriot, n. One to whom the interests of a part seem superior to the interests of the whole. The dupe of statesmen and the tool of conquerers. ---Ambrose Bierce

  3. #3
    Average Joe
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    I live in the pathetic state of Florida and I proudly voted against the amendment.

    I have ZERO respect for anyone who supports the amendment.

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  4. #4
    anti-social worker
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    The press release on the pending challenge, from Lambda Legal:
    The American Civil Liberties Union, Lambda Legal and the National Center for Lesbian Rights filed a writ petition before the California Supreme Court today urging the court to invalidate Proposition 8 if it passes. The petition charges that Proposition 8 is invalid because the initiative process was improperly used in an attempt to undo the constitution's core commitment to equality for everyone by eliminating a fundamental right from just one group - lesbian and gay Californians. Proposition 8 also improperly attempts to prevent the courts from exercising their essential constitutional role of protecting the equal protection rights of minorities. According to the California Constitution, such radical changes to the organizing principles of state government cannot be made by simple majority vote through the initiative process, but instead must, at a minimum, go through the state legislature first.

    The California Constitution itself sets out two ways to alter the document that sets the most basic rules about how state government works. Through the initiative process, voters can make relatively small changes to the constitution. But any measure that would change the underlying principles of the constitution must first be approved by the legislature before being submitted to the voters. That didn't happen with Proposition 8, and that's why it's invalid.

    "If the voters approved an initiative that took the right to free speech away from women, but not from men, everyone would agree that such a measure conflicts with the basic ideals of equality enshrined in our constitution. Proposition 8 suffers from the same flaw - it removes a protected constitutional right - here, the right to marry - not from all Californians, but just from one group of us," said Jenny Pizer, Senior Counsel with Lambda Legal. "That's too big a change in the principles of our constitution to be made just by a bare majority of voters."

    "A major purpose of the constitution is to protect minorities from majorities. Because changing that principle is a fundamental change to the organizing principles of the constitution itself, only the legislature can initiate such revisions to the constitution," added Elizabeth Gill, a staff attorney with the ACLU of Northern California.

    The lawsuit was filed today in the California Supreme Court on behalf of Equality California and 6 same-sex couples who did not marry before Tuesday's election but would like to be able to marry now.

    The groups filed a writ petition in the California Supreme Court before the elections presenting similar arguments because they believed the initiative should not have appeared on the ballot, but the court dismissed that petition without addressing its merits. That earlier order is not precedent here.

    "Historically, courts are reluctant to get involved in disputes if they can avoid doing so," said Shannon Minter, Legal Director of NCLR. "It is not uncommon for the court to wait to see what happens at the polls before considering these legal arguments. However, now that Prop 8 may pass, the courts will have to weigh in and we believe they will agree that Prop 8 should never have been on the ballot in the first place."

    This would not be the first time the court has struck down an improper voter initiative. In 1990, the court stuck down an initiative that would have added a provision to the California Constitution stating that the "onstitution shall not be construed by the courts to afford greater rights to criminal defendants than those afforded by the Constitution of the United States." That measure was invalid because it improperly attempted to strip California's courts of their role as independent interpreters of the state's constitution.

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    Patriot, n. One to whom the interests of a part seem superior to the interests of the whole. The dupe of statesmen and the tool of conquerers. ---Ambrose Bierce

  5. #5
    I paid $20 for what?
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    Luris Blear's Avatar
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    Hm. Passing laws to harm people you don't like is wrong.

    I agree wholeheartedly.

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  6. #6
    The Gay One
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    It really hurts to be told you aren't good enough to be recognized. We have the same ban here in Ohio. In fact, I can't even make decisions for my partner in the hospital or even get his Life Insurance if he were to die. It's amazing that there is this much hate in the world. They don't realize how much this ban trickles down to other things.

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    "He's a real gentleman. I bet he takes the dishes out of the sink before he pees in it." Shirley Maclaine as Weezer

  7. #7
    Master of Brutality
    Back to this fun stuff.
     
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    I hate that California passed this bull crap of a proposition.

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    "We all go a little mad sometimes"

  8. #8
    anti-social worker
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    Grendel's Avatar
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    A somewhat disheartening breakdown of the Prop Hate balloting from CNN's exit polls:
    White (63%)
    YES: 49%
    NO: 51%

    African-American (10%)
    YES: 70%
    NO: 30%

    Latino (18%)
    YES: 53%
    NO: 47%

    Asian (6%)
    YES: 49%
    NO: 51%

    Other (3%)
    YES: 51%
    NO: 49%
    Given the history of discrimination committed under the color of law in this country, unfortunate numbers, to say the least. The cultural attitudes that are at play on this issue are really fascinating.

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    Last edited by Grendel; 11-05-2008 at 09:14 PM.


    Patriot, n. One to whom the interests of a part seem superior to the interests of the whole. The dupe of statesmen and the tool of conquerers. ---Ambrose Bierce

  9. #9
    The Russian Dictator
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    Gatsu18's Avatar
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    Gay people don't have rights because they don't have souls. And they don't have souls because they drink the blood of unicorns. Ya know, like Voldemort!



    Christ i'm bored. I was gonna say something intelligent but at the moment that's all that can come out.

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  10. #10
    too many BANNED MOFOs
    Bo-rack Obama mutha fucka
     
    thorn_man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grendel View Post
    A somewhat disheartening breakdown of the Prop Hate balloting from CNN's exit polls:Given the history of discrimination committed under the color of law in this country, unfortunate numbers, to say the least. The cultural attitudes that are at play on this issue are really fascinating.
    I was really thinking about that. I wonder how different these polls would have been without the influx of African American voters this year. Even though most of them are socially conservative they'll vote for a social liberal based on skin color. Not saying it's wrong, or that I wouldn't have done the same if I were African American, just the way it goes sometimes.

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    Last edited by thorn_man; 11-05-2008 at 09:52 PM.

  11. #11
    Rotting Zealot
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    Aurone's Avatar
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    Washington State had its own bill passed that was stricking Cords. I-1000, which legalized that a docter could aid someone with suicide who's dieing from something incurrable. I actully voted for it, as I think some things are worse then death.

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  12. #12
    anti-social worker
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    Grendel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thorn_man View Post
    I was really thinking about that. I wonder how different these polls would have been without the influx of African American voters this year. Even though most of them are socially conservative they'll vote for a social liberal based on skin color. Not saying it's wrong, or that I wouldn't have done the same if I were African American, just the way it goes sometimes.
    I haven't seen a lot of breakdowns on other issues, but I'm not sure how across-the-board "socially conservative" the African American electorate is, as opposed to gays being a somewhat unique issue in that community.

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    Patriot, n. One to whom the interests of a part seem superior to the interests of the whole. The dupe of statesmen and the tool of conquerers. ---Ambrose Bierce

  13. #13
    too many BANNED MOFOs
    Bo-rack Obama mutha fucka
     
    thorn_man's Avatar
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    Well from what I gather from other polls and day to day life, they're generally very religious, usually some version of baptist, and although the democratic platform party doesn't usually respect their values and morals, they do overwhelmingly agree on the economic and quality of life issues, easily overlooking anything like a socially liberal agenda.

    That said, I was looking over more exit polls and in Florida, where there make up 11% of the vote, 29% voted yes and 71% voted no. In Arizona they make up 2% of the state making it hard to make a figure. In Arkansas they make up 11% of the vote, and although the majority voted for the proposition, it was a closer 54% yes, 46% no. (however it should be noted this proposition was less blatantly 'anti-gay' and seemed to be more 'anti-unmarried')

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  14. #14
    I paid $20 for what?
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    Luris Blear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JerkyPuck View Post
    It really hurts to be told you aren't good enough to be recognized. We have the same ban here in Ohio. In fact, I can't even make decisions for my partner in the hospital or even get his Life Insurance if he were to die. It's amazing that there is this much hate in the world. They don't realize how much this ban trickles down to other things.
    I wish things like that were abolished. I don't care what name they give it -- just allow people the rights and responsibilities to choose for themselves.

    I am genuinely saddened by what happened with Proposition 8. Even Google broke their policy of remaining officially neutral in order to speak out against it -- something I thought was a very good move on their behalf.

    This is also a reason why I refused to vote Republican at the state level. They are apparently good to their word: a limited government on top, and a scary heavy-handed homophobic government below. The Texas Republican platform looked good until it came to their totalitarian view of bedroom activities. It would have made a crime of everything except "man on top of woman." That entire section scared the hell out of me. Thankfully we had a lot of (L) candidates to choose from.

    Anyway, this all just bothers me. The government has no business poking around my bedroom. Neither does any church or Greenpeace for that matter. And neither do any of them belong in any bedroom where any two adults who made the conscious effort to love each other are doing whatever it is they choose do.

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  15. #15
    Rotting Zealot
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    Liberals can not handle losses. Everything must be as they see it. I am glad there are no re-education camps in America yet.

    And why you don't blame the images on Folsom Street Fair in SF for so many people not sympathizing with same-sex love affairs?

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  16. #16
    Rotting Zealot
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luris Blear View Post
    I wish things like that were abolished. I don't care what name they give it -- just allow people the rights and responsibilities to choose for themselves.

    I am genuinely saddened by what happened with Proposition 8. Even Google broke their policy of remaining officially neutral in order to speak out against it -- something I thought was a very good move on their behalf.

    This is also a reason why I refused to vote Republican at the state level. They are apparently good to their word: a limited government on top, and a scary heavy-handed homophobic government below. The Texas Republican platform looked good until it came to their totalitarian view of bedroom activities. It would have made a crime of everything except "man on top of woman." That entire section scared the hell out of me. Thankfully we had a lot of (L) candidates to choose from.

    Anyway, this all just bothers me. The government has no business poking around my bedroom. Neither does any church or Greenpeace for that matter. And neither do any of them belong in any bedroom where any two adults who made the conscious effort to love each other are doing whatever it is they choose do.
    We're homophobic?
    I don't know about sad you but the real problem that homosexuals face now is the practitioners of the religion of peace who want world wide domination - in their Khalifat same-sex partners will be executed. Yes, it's extermination vs. "marriages". I bet the gays wouldn't do much about it because they're too sensitive and politically correct to stand against "oppressed" Muslims.

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  17. #17
    anti-social worker
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    Grendel's Avatar
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    Thankfully, most people don't define their "real problems" in terms of anti-Islamic fantasies of existential threat.

    More importantly, it's entirely off-topic to the ballot measure being discussed.

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    Last edited by Grendel; 11-10-2008 at 11:16 PM.


    Patriot, n. One to whom the interests of a part seem superior to the interests of the whole. The dupe of statesmen and the tool of conquerers. ---Ambrose Bierce

  18. #18
    I said shit Goddamn! I'm a man!!
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    Tarantino's Avatar
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    I love that chickens have more rights than gays do, ugh.

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    "This is a snakeskin jacket! And for me it's a symbol of my individuality, and my belief in personal freedom."

  19. #19
    too many BANNED MOFOs
    Bo-rack Obama mutha fucka
     
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    I can understand some people wanting to keep 'marriage' strictly between a man and a woman, but as soon as people who are 'married' are allowed extra rights and privileges, and not every single two tax paying citizens are allowed a marriage, it becomes a civil rights violation.
    I can accept that this country is not ready to give us the right to marry, but there still needs to be an unquestionable, immediate and mandatory nation-wide establishment that gives homosexuals the right to civil unions, and to make the only difference between a marriage and civil union the name (i.e., give civil unions all the rights and benefits of a marriage, with the name being the only different thing).

    Although I could foresee some problems, for one thing I don't know the history of civil unions. There could be an important and deliberate reason as to why civil unions and marriages don't have the same assets.

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  20. #20
    The Gay One
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    Quote Originally Posted by lunatic View Post
    Liberals can not handle losses. Everything must be as they see it. I am glad there are no re-education camps in America yet.

    And why you don't blame the images on Folsom Street Fair in SF for so many people not sympathizing with same-sex love affairs?
    This is not about politics. This is about humanity at this point. This has nothing to to with liberals and conservatives. This has to do with basic human relationships. Fuck religion. Fuck religious people. Fuck belief. This has gone too far. I will not be sit by and watch this go down without fighting just because you think Jesus hates me. And as for your smart ass Folsom Street Fair comment. Don't go there. I have never gone to an event like that, because I don't want to. Do I tell anyone else they shouldn't or disrespect their right to? Absolutely not. Not every gay person has on a pair of assless chaps. Infact, that is a VERY small percentage of our culture. You also have to realize that when someone oppresses your right to love, you are gonna THROW that love in EVERYONE'S face. Do I think that's useful to do that? No, I don't. But I can certainly see where they would be angry enough to do it. You might no see these unusual images if we weren't made out to be so perverse and sick.

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    "He's a real gentleman. I bet he takes the dishes out of the sink before he pees in it." Shirley Maclaine as Weezer

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