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  1. #41
    UHM Since 1999
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    I understand. This issue isn't in my top 10 of importance but I just sorta am uncomfortable with a group attempting to fundamentally change the definition of marriage when their legal rights can be covered in other ways.

    I think marriage is an important concept for our society, for children and their well-being. I think when you start changing the definition away from the traditional, it weakens the core which is bad for society.

    Especially since there is no reason for it as long as civil unions are allowed.

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    FrighT MasteR:one of da best additions to da board, in my opinion, having a place like the oath/dark mind for more intellectual discussions and analysis, and sometimes offering a lil comedy relief with da FrighT interviews

  2. #42
    The Gay One
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    Traditional? What is traditional about marriage anymore. Gay people aren't freaks....we aren't here to stain any white cloth. We are normal, sane, loving couples who want what we aren't allowed to have. The traditional definition of marriage is supposedly between a man and a woman. Please tell me how changing that definition to "anyone who wants a loving committed relationship in the eyes of God" weaken that definition. Please tell me how.

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    "He's a real gentleman. I bet he takes the dishes out of the sink before he pees in it." Shirley Maclaine as Weezer

  3. #43
    UHM Since 1999
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    Never said that gay people were freaks but last time I checked they don't procreate, which is the traditional reason for marriage.

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    FrighT MasteR:one of da best additions to da board, in my opinion, having a place like the oath/dark mind for more intellectual discussions and analysis, and sometimes offering a lil comedy relief with da FrighT interviews

  4. #44
    Average Joe
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    When a couple can get married on the outskirts of the Las Vegas strip in about 2 min. by a man dressed as Elvis, the tradition and fundamental ideas of marriage are already compromised. The fact that the divorce rate in America is sadenly high is another testament that the old way of marriage isn't conveyed in the eyes of Americans anymore so to say that Gay people will hurt the traditional means of marriage is a weak argument.

    I believe that gay people have the right to marry. Especially if the church and the pastor agrees to it. I pretty sure Jerrypuck or Booberry wouldn't want to get married in a church that they weren't welcomed in, so as long as everyone participating is in agreeance then there shouldn't be a problem.

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  5. #45
    anti-social worker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Awesome View Post
    I believe that gay people have the right to marry. Especially if the church and the pastor agrees to it. I pretty sure Jerrypuck or Booberry wouldn't want to get married in a church that they weren't welcomed in, so as long as everyone participating is in agreeance then there shouldn't be a problem.
    To clarify, Doc, no one's really talking about churches here. A sacramental marriage conducted by a given faith and--for lack of a better word--"legal" marriage, occurring with a license issued by a county clerk are two separate things.

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    Patriot, n. One to whom the interests of a part seem superior to the interests of the whole. The dupe of statesmen and the tool of conquerers. ---Ambrose Bierce

  6. #46
    uhm's only hospital corpsman
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    no one liked my post? and i was being positive

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    in the name of god impure souls of the living dead shall be banished into eternal damnation amen

  7. #47
    The Gay One
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh Lederl View Post
    Never said that gay people were freaks but last time I checked they don't procreate, which is the traditional reason for marriage.
    Then we need to vote to outlaw condoms too? Using your logic, they would also weaken the definition of marriage. Have you even thought of the number of children who need good parents and don't have them and the number of gay couples who would be more than willing, but aren't allowed to? I know for a fact that I would be a terrific parent.

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    "He's a real gentleman. I bet he takes the dishes out of the sink before he pees in it." Shirley Maclaine as Weezer

  8. #48
    UHM Since 1999
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    Never said anything about whether homosexual couples should be allowed to adopt children or not.

    Condoms are for prevention of unwanted pregnancy and disease and really have nothing to do with this discussion.

    Bottom line for me is that i think it is completely reasonable to support keeping marriage with it's traditional definition, respecting those that believe strongly in that. In doing that, it is important to allow other legal options for alternative lifestyles and I think most people agree with that. Having this viewpoint does not make someone anti-gay.

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    FrighT MasteR:one of da best additions to da board, in my opinion, having a place like the oath/dark mind for more intellectual discussions and analysis, and sometimes offering a lil comedy relief with da FrighT interviews

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh Lederl View Post
    Never said anything about whether homosexual couples should be allowed to adopt children or not.

    Condoms are for prevention of unwanted pregnancy and disease and really have nothing to do with this discussion.

    Bottom line for me is that i think it is completely reasonable to support keeping marriage with it's traditional definition, respecting those that believe strongly in that. In doing that, it is important to allow other legal options for alternative lifestyles and I think most people agree with that. Having this viewpoint does not make someone anti-gay.
    What's the point of this traditionalism that you tout on and on about?

    I'd really like to know.

    Traditionalism to me, just really seems like a means maintaining an identity for people who can't form an identity for themselves... perhaps I'm wrong, but that's just how I see it.

    Why should a person conduct themselves in a certain way, just because that is the way it was always done before?

    We are a socially evolutional species... we keep moving.. we keep changing.. we keep adapting... we aren't what we were 20, 30, 50, 100, 1000, years ago...

    Why hold onto old ideals that are intolerant and hurtful?

    Makes no sense...

    I know that you consider "progressive" a curse-word... but that is what humanity is!!!

    We are supposed to look upon the intolerances and superstitions of old, look at the bullshit with new understanding... and laugh and turn away from it as we move forward.

    I can't remember who said it, but they were totally right, Traditionalism is dead men's baggage... let it go...

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    Plucking Eyes, Sockets Red, Swarming Flies, EAT THE DEAD!!!!!! - Me

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  10. #50
    The Gay One
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    Thank you War! It is about time that someone sees what I am trying to say. Traditionalism is fed to us by society. We are "supposed" to feel this way because we have morals and values and want a better tomorrow for our children. I have no problem with a conservative value base...or even a religious one. BUT when that tradition discriminates against someone else, I have a problem.

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    "He's a real gentleman. I bet he takes the dishes out of the sink before he pees in it." Shirley Maclaine as Weezer

  11. #51
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    RIP's Avatar
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    A good article in Newsweek no less.

    http://www.newsweek.com/id/172653/page/1

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    A relatively unseen classic!

  12. #52
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    I've sort of been thinking about this for a while, been talking to a lot of people for and against it, and from what I can tell a lot of the people against it seem to be set in their way.

    So, I'm about to make what might be a long stretch of a comparison but I sort of noticed some similarities.

    I'm not looking to compare the gay rights movement to slavery or anything like it.
    Referring to the abolitionists of the 1800's, there were "radical abolitionists" and "moderate abolitionists", radicals wanted slavery to end immediately at any cost, while moderates didn't want slavery to be able to spread from the south, i.e. each new state should be free.

    Would we be better off focusing on securing equal civil unions for every person in every state, before attempting to unrealistically win over the opposing majority?

    So I sort of see the people who are demanding marriage right now as "radical gay marriage supporters" and those who think it's definitely a long term goal but realistically see the majority of the country opposes it right now, and would rather make sure they at least have basic rights as "moderate gay marriage supporters".

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  13. #53
    The Gay One
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    I completely agree and undertand what you are saying. Rome wasn't built in a day. However, it is truly a long term goal that may take another genertion to accomplish, but it will happen eventually. I just hope I'm around to see it.

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    "He's a real gentleman. I bet he takes the dishes out of the sink before he pees in it." Shirley Maclaine as Weezer

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