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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by strtfghtr View Post

    Everyone's examples of Jaws, NotLD, Psycho, etc. are all genre defining pedestals. You can't compare the 2000s, or any decade for that matter, to the standout movies of other decades. You have to look on them as a whole. How many "great" horror films were there in the 50s? 60s? 70s? 80s?

    Do a quick runthrough in your head and you can see it was a steady increase till around the mid 80s...then a taperoff to the dreadful 90s when there were only a few standouts. As the cycle reboots itself we will see more, better horror return in coming years.
    You have to admit we're seeing a ridiculous amount of remakes...not new stories with the old icons...but remakes of shit already done.

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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Godfatha View Post
    Hostel had an interesting premise, but it was buried under Roth's tribute to the 80's.
    Agreed.

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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonmanes View Post
    If the options were to continue releasing watered down and terrible sequels, not getting any sequels or remakes, or giving another filmmaker the opporunity to remake the film, Id prefer to see a remake even if it ends up being terrible. Robert Englund cant keep playing Freddy with the same level of intensity into his 80s, can you imagine Angus Scrimm starring in a new Phantasm? At some point, we have to face the inevitable, the films are going to be remade, or else most are going to be on a steady downward spiral in film quality. I hated the Halloween reboot, but I will take Zombie's interpretation of the character a hundred times over rather than watching Halloween 5 or 7. The Wicker Man was aweful too, but its not like you can sequelize the original, and Id rather have the chance to see another version of it than not, we dont gain anything from nothing.

    It sucks that they have to go back and change the things we have all grown up with, but there are only so many times we can keep rewatching the same films before its time for something new, and Freddy and Jason will always be there waiting for us when we get back.
    This thread is not about how we feel about remakes. It's more about the type of horror movies that are being made.

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  4. #24
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  5. #25
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    Neither is contributing intelligently to a good thread.

    Seriously, I don't like doing that.

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    Last edited by koolmike; 03-12-2009 at 08:46 PM.
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    That horror filmmaking is at a low ebb and compelling stories are virtually nonexistent is without debate. The question is "why?"

    One can say it's because the modern audience is so desensitized to graphic violence that it's spawned an arms race in gore. But that only explains why filmmakers--and I tend to use that term loosely these days--have pursued that particular variable in the creative equation. The issue of overall quality remains and for that, I again point the finger at the audience.

    If nothing else, the modern horror audience has shown itself two be two things: relatively loyal and embarrassingly indiscriminate in its tastes. Though there are individual exceptions, as a whole, we will slap our money down for damn near anything. From a budgetary aspect, this is a generally cheap genre in which to work. Those two things coupled together mean that there is no studio incentive to go out of the way to look for anything original. Quite the opposite: any studio worth its salt knows enough to go back to the trend--or even the films--that worked in the past because it's consistently worth their while. They don't have to pay high profile talent either in front of or behind the camera to keep the cash registers ringing.

    Better ideas are certainly out there somewhere, but no one's going to A.) take the time to seek them out or B.) take the chance to deviate from the formula as long as the ATM card that is the horror audience continues to work.

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  7. #27
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    Great points G.

    There are so many books out there with fresh ideas. Either they're not being read or filmmakers are afraid of rolling the dice on a new idea.

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  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grendel View Post
    Better ideas are certainly out there somewhere, but no one's going to A.) take the time to seek them out or B.) take the chance to deviate from the formula as long as the ATM card that is the horror audience continues to work.

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  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grendel View Post
    If nothing else, the modern horror audience has shown itself two be two things: relatively loyal and embarrassingly indiscriminate in its tastes. Though there are individual exceptions, as a whole, we will slap our money down for damn near anything.

    ...

    Better ideas are certainly out there somewhere, but no one's going to A.) take the time to seek them out or B.) take the chance to deviate from the formula as long as the ATM card that is the horror audience continues to work.
    Again, remove "ATM card" from your post and what difference does time make?

    "Drive-In Movie" still has a very clear definition despite the near-extinction of the drive-in. There were only three basic differences between them:

    Why the psycho killer was motivated to kill teenagers in the woods.

    What the pyscho killer's preferred weapon was.

    What stupid costume choice the pyscho killer felt he needed to make while sneaking through the woods unseen. Sack on his face? Trademark hat? Jacket? Zebra-striped banana hammock? No one seems him, but the guy is crazy enough to wear it in any weather conditions.

    Horror also has the benefit of producing such terrible movies that no one remembers them ten years later. Just think back a little, though, and this is all still nothing new. Just tune it out like we forgot all about those drive-in slashers from 1986.

    You'll be happier.

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  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by koolmike View Post
    You have to admit we're seeing a ridiculous amount of remakes...not new stories with the old icons...but remakes of shit already done.
    But the remakes and rehashed ideas are still better than the watered down trash we had 10 years ago...once they run through their "icons" we'll be back to sequels and different slashers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grendel View Post

    Better ideas are certainly out there somewhere, but no one's going to A.) take the time to seek them out or B.) take the chance to deviate from the formula as long as the ATM card that is the horror audience continues to work.
    I agree with your horror ATM idea. The majority of Americans are lazy idiots and will swallow whatever vomit is spoon fed to them by hollywood.

    Flavor of the decade for horror: remakes
    Flavor of the decade for action: superheros

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  11. #31
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    I wouldn't exactly say horror has been dumbed down recently as much as we've already seen it all. They have pretty much done every idea to death already, and of coarse the remakes are over-whelming the genre. Still i'd rather deal with un-inspired remakes, than shitty teen send-ups like Scream or the previous decades tepid offerengs. I just can't forgive 90's horror, say what you will about the modern incarnations but I enjoy them much more. I see i'm not the only one in this thread who feels this way either.

    There are certainly some good intelligent horror films being made, both original works, and some remakes too
    I think it's pretty hard for anyone to come up with a film that hasn't been done and pull off a good execution. It does occur but often times the resulting film puts up poor sales numbers or isn't understood by it's audience. I think they are trying to give everyone what they want and it's been moderatley successful imo. I mean in all seriousness there never has been an over abundance of 'intellectual or thinking mans' horror films. Certainly there were more back then but not in contrast to heaps of outrageuos explotative films that got churned out.

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    Rated R vs Rated PG-13
    Original vs Remake
    Sub Genre of Horror vs Sub Genre of Horror
    Decade vs Decade
    Audiences Then vs Audiences Now

    ETC

    All redundant battles in the sea of the genre. The Horror genre is one of the easiest cash cows Hollywood has as a card to play. When in doubt, as long as their is something that sticks, they go with it for a prolonged period of time.

    It all goes in cycles.

    Right now I'd say two of the top things the suits out there use to keep themselves happy are the Horror Genre and the Comic Book sub genre powered by Marvel, DC, etc.

    It's an option of choice really. The smarter, more seasoned fans of the Horror Genre will choose what they want to see. For the masses it's simply something to do, a social event that they talk about after wards but clearly forget about it some time later. That's always something that has stood the test of time.

    When it comes down to the battle of the Horror Fans vs Casual fans seeing a Horror Movie. The Casual fan will always win and hollywood knows that therefore that's where the execution is geared towards.

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  13. #33
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    America lost Horror, perhaps it'll get it back... perhaps not. Low budget/Independant films and non-American markets are doing fine for now, I never had a problem reading sub-titles so I'll survive. We shall see what the future brings, in any case.

    Script writers need to read a book. Way too many decent ideas rotting away in books, graphic novels, and short stories to give up and get in the remake/sequal/prequal-cycle.

    Hostel forgot what it was supposed to be, so it suffered for it. Nothing more, nothing less.

    Can only trade story for gore for so long before people start fast-forwarding to the subpar climax.

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    Last edited by slimeisacharacter; 03-13-2009 at 12:51 AM.
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  14. #34
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    hostel wasn't bad, better than the Halloween remake :starefreak:

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  15. #35
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    no doubt

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  16. #36
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    I think the "dumbing down" of horror has to do with the industry's growing focus on these damn teenagers. Unfortunately, they are the target audience of today, not just in horror but in pop culture advertising, which, to say the least, doesn't show a lot of promise in the concepts of intelligence. And horror has become so associated with sex, violence, and shock that it's become a cinematic NEED, in a way. These teenagers, who by the way claim to be horror fans, demand the sex, blood, and gore, enough to suffice them for the running time. You think they care about plot? Horror movie, action movie, whatever...teenagers aren't typically keen at following plot lines.

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  17. #37
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    wow i actually agree with steelba again

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    Quote Originally Posted by RustedChainsaw View Post
    I think the "dumbing down" of horror has to do with the industry's growing focus on these damn teenagers. Unfortunately, they are the target audience of today, not just in horror but in pop culture advertising, which, to say the least, doesn't show a lot of promise in the concepts of intelligence. And horror has become so associated with sex, violence, and shock that it's become a cinematic NEED, in a way.
    I would tend to agree with this as well.

    Even though it can be argued that it's always been about selling the product to the more vulnerable demographic, moreover casual fan as I said in my post.

    Quote Originally Posted by RustedChainsaw View Post
    These teenagers, who by the way claim to be horror fans, demand the sex, blood, and gore, enough to suffice them for the running time. You think they care about plot? Horror movie, action movie, whatever...teenagers aren't typically keen at following plot lines.
    I would agree with everything here except for nudity. I've actually seen a small outcry of people out there who actually don't like nudity or over the top nudity in horror moves today. Its tough for me to digest whether or not its something new that I have not foreseen or maybe there has always been that crowd of activists out there who boycott nudity in horror movies.

    Nevertheless I see it more of an outcry from inside the horror genre now, whether its from the horror fan or the casual fan, im not so sure of yet.

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    Last edited by ŔęĐ; 03-13-2009 at 09:16 AM.

  19. #39
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    Anyone who boycots nudity is an asshole. Nudity rules! Again seeing a nice pair of boobs dancing around the screen is something the 90s tried its best to rid from horror. I commend the makers of F1309 and MBV3D for adding LENGTHY scenes of nudity to its horror.

    This topic is making me thing of some of the great horror films I've enjoyed in the last 10 years:

    Hatchet
    Feast
    My Bloody Valentine 3D
    Wrong Turn 1 and 2
    Rest Stop
    28 Days Later
    Abominable
    Behind the Mask
    Black Sheep
    Big Bad Wolf
    Cabin Fever
    Dawn of the Dead 04
    Dead and Breakfast
    Dog Soldiers
    Faust
    Freddy Vs Jason
    Ginger Snaps (all of em)
    Grindhouse
    Hills Have eyes 06
    Hostel
    Jesus Christ Vampire Hunter
    Midnight Meat Train
    The Mist
    Santa's Slay
    Shaun of the Dead
    Undead

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    Quote Originally Posted by strtfghtr View Post
    Anyone who boycots nudity is an asshole. Nudity rules! Again seeing a nice pair of boobs dancing around the screen is something the 90s tried its best to rid from horror. I commend the makers of F1309 and MBV3D for adding LENGTHY scenes of nudity to its horror.
    Agreed.

    Even though I don't believe the 90s were a total loss for the genre. I agree that they tried to make it too PC, self aware and believed they could outsmart everyone. Eventually that trend ran out of steam.

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