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  1. #61
    UHM's Arrogant Metal Head
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    DMHead777's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chief Falling Rock View Post
    yes u don't agree with my opinion so by all means nitpick at the things I say.
    That's odd, because you usually think crappy movies are good

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  2. #62
    The Unbreakable
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    Quote Originally Posted by BurnetRhoades View Post
    Why compare it to an epic with complex themes? It's a well made, pulp crime drama with believable, human characters, ala Reservoir Dogs, Pulp Fiction, True Romance, etc. with classic Western themes too. It does explore themes of honor and the difference between amoral villains and folks who could still be objectively viewed as "bad people". In a very real way, Ryan Gosling's character is an anti-hero akin to The Man With No Name (he is known as The Driver after all).

    I've never heard Fist Full of Dollars criticized for not being more like Apocalypse Now...just sayin'.
    The purpose of the comparison was to show how the movie was like a tin can. Shiny and pretty on the outside, but empty inside. Whereas other movies are like tin cans filled with gems. And I think it's a stretch to say Drive is like Pulp Fiction and Reservoir Dogs. Maybe in style, but there's not enough substance to reach that level. Don't get me wrong, I liked it and thought it was entertaining, but I like movies for different reasons.

    Also, I think anti-heroes are driven more by personal goals. For instance, Snake Plissken only saves the president because in doing so he saves his own life. Ryan Gosling's character on the other hand is less selfish in his motives. He's doing what he does for the sake of the woman and her son.

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  3. #63
    Rotting Zealot
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    BurnetRhoades's Avatar
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    Actually no, it's not a tin can because it's filled with believable, complicated characters. It's a human movie which, ultimately, the best epic movies are ultimately about, not the spectacle or the backdrop. Otherwise Michael Bay would be one of the greatest directors in the world. That's your shiny, empty tin can. Your comparison here is completely baseless. There's nothing truly grandiose about the Tarantino films I mentioned, no deeper characters (less so for the most part), no greater plots. Editing and style dress up their raw, basic simplicity (which is a strength, not a knock).

    Snake Plissken is one kind of anti-hero but you disregard how different your description of him is from others, like my more direct comparison. The Driver isn't altruistic. He's not in the exact alignment, to use an RPG term, as Snake but neither is Han Solo (another example a little more like Clint's characters and The Driver). I don't know anyone who would try to argue that Han Solo isn't also an iconic anti-hero. You need to re-evaluate the differences between the hero and the anti-hero.

    Gosling's character does what he does because of his feelings for the mother and son. This is still not a wholly unselfish motivation. It's complicated by his release of her while still putting his neck out, despite his wanting to be with her. This complexity is what makes his decision interesting and tragic and why the anti-hero is often far more interesting a character than the vanilla, Dudley Do-Right hero.

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    Last edited by BurnetRhoades; 02-22-2012 at 06:11 PM.

  4. #64
    Zombiefied Zealot
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    THought it was a great film and I loved Gosselin's character. He was so calm that I found the character to be a bit frightening. You could see that he was a man standing at the edge of a cliff, trying not to let out all that anger and violence. You don't need a lot of dialogue to make believable characters or to have substance.

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  5. #65
    Rotting Zealot
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    BurnetRhoades's Avatar
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    Resolve to do what needs to be done can be very scary.

    The scene with the "bitch slap" was as menacing if not moreso than any of the other violent acts in the film because escalation wasn't a threat, it was a promise, and all she'd seen him do was drive. I couldn't help but think to myself, to her character, "tell him," because I didn't want to see him go any further down that road, knowing he'd go all the way and even though she more or less deserved it that would be the kind of stain that would stick to him in bad ways and, ultimately, render him beyond living redemption.


    edit: I love the ambiguity of not really knowing, is he a good guy capable of sociopathic behavior or is he a sociopath capable of caring for people close to him?

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    Last edited by BurnetRhoades; 02-22-2012 at 10:29 PM.

  6. #66
    The Unbreakable
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    Well, the way I see it is the way I see it. I don't expect everyone to agree with it. Tastes vary. But at the same time, I hope you'll understand my unwillingness to agree to having baseless comparisons and re-evaluating definition differences. I happen to agree with the generally accepted definition of an anti-hero, as defined by wikipedia (hey, a few years ago I probably would've discredited it too, but it's become more reliable since then). It says "Unlike traditional heroes, antiheroes are not as fabulous as the traditional ones. They are generally corrupt, oppressive, etc. They are not villains but not necessarily heroes. They may do bad things but are not evil. They usually fight villains, but not for the reason of justice. Their actions are motivated by their own personal desires, such as revenge."

    The driver does follow half of this definition of the anti-hero, I'll give you that. But he doesn't meet the second half of the criteria. The Driver fought his villains for justice, the justice of others, but not out of revenge per se. Had the events in the story still occurred and the woman and her child not involved with them, he probably would have just skipped town and started over somewhere else. And that's to be expected, because it fit his character.

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  7. #67
    Hello?
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    sounds like we have some of these on our hands

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  8. #68
    The Unbreakable
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    Yeah...I'm not saying "it sucked". Like I said multiple times in my post, I liked it. What I am saying is that it's not the deep, complex movie some people say it is. But that's just my opinion.

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  9. #69
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    I totally enjoyed this movie

    I like this character as he was quiet, wasn't a load mouth macho motherfucker. Was all action when it was needed.

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