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  1. #141
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    choptop2's Avatar
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    Pizza hut sofa? What's michael bay without blatant product placement... Ok to be fair this series has always been a way to shill.

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    Last edited by choptop2; 09-20-2013 at 02:29 PM.

  2. #142
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    I have no love for the original films or the animated TV series and always saw them as trash, because I had the original comics and the original TMNT were badass (to my junior high self). Every derivative after that was a sell-out and a let down. This will just be the most expensive disappointment to date.

    TMNT11.jpg

    ...there is no way to disgrace the other non-comic forms of TMNT, because they've all been a disgrace to the source material.

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  3. #143
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    Yeah, but can't you just enjoy the movie on its own merits (the TMNT 1990 movie I mean)? TBH the old cartoon is cheesy and dated as hell but the original live-action movie still holds up.

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  4. #144
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    I look at the animated series and those movies the way fans of those movies and the animated series look at Michael Bay's prospects for TMNT. I can't enjoy them for what they are because what they are, to me, is awful. They don't even figure into my concerns over what atrocity Bay is doing to the story, etc. At best they are (and Bay's will be) the Batman films before Nolan took over the franchise. In this regard, Bay is Schumacher and his changes amount to the nipple suits, more star power and more camp.

    It may very well be impossible to do an actual good TMNT movie while being faithful to the comic simply because a Rated-R rubber suit and puppet martial arts film sounds kind of impossible or at least highly unlikely from a major studio. With all of the established merchandising at stake the right to the IP are going to be too expensive, now, for an independent with that sort of vision.

    But that's just speculation on my part. The money they're worth is enough now that it's the juvenile image that sorta has to be preserved to protect their corporate value which has nothing to do with Eastman and Laird's original creation anymore because who are they and how many people really care about an obscure, independent comic from the '80s? I'm betting that for 90%+ the TMNT from the cartoon and earlier films is all they really know and where they were introduced to the story.

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    Last edited by BurnetRhoades; 09-21-2013 at 11:55 AM.

  5. #145
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    I get what you're saying, it's seen as a kiddie franchise and we'll probably never get a true, gritty Ninja Turtles movie that is truer to the comic. I think the closest they got was the 1990 film but that was also influenced by the cartoon.

    I myself wouldn't mind seeing a hard R Ninja Turtles movie, but not done Nolan-style realistic. If you watch the Tim Burton Batman movies, they were fantasy but also quite dark and violent, and I wish comic book movies would return that kind of aesthetic.

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  6. #146
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    Closest thing you'll probably get to anything involving the Comic Book Turtles was Turtles Forever in which they crossed over with the 80s Turtles and the 2003 darker themed cartoon Turtles.

    They basically shit all over the 80s Turtles and villains in that crossover but it was nice to see the 80s cartoon Turtles again for me anyway, and I really thought overall, it was one of the better crossovers done.

    Full movie here for those who dunno what im talking about.


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    Last edited by Red; 09-21-2013 at 03:34 PM.

  7. #147
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    Supposedly the 2003 series is closest to the source. If you go to peter laird's blog you can see how involved he was in the scripts of that show. I never watched it. As I got older I found quite a few of the classic mirage comics in the longboxes. They walk a fine line of being gritty while also being a parody.

    You'll never see rubber mutants kill street gangs in in live action, unless it's made by troma.

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    Last edited by choptop2; 09-21-2013 at 04:00 PM.

  8. #148
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    Ugh...that movie. The 2003 series has slightly better production value but it's still bad art and cheap, unskilled, sweatshop animation. It offends my eyeballs. The 2007 CG feature is the only animated version of TMNT where they hired real artists, however good or bad the film is as a whole (haven't seen it, only the trailer and clips, didn't risk the disappointment). It's a Hong Kong studio, so the Weinsteins still went for inexpensive, but it at least looks good and has much better than I would expect animation.

    The art of the original comics wasn't fantastic but it had a style and you could tell that there was some effort and some skills. None of that translated to the cartoon series or the Forever film though. Even if they had, somehow, got it all right in one of those animated versions, script-wise, the art is all trash so I'd never put myself through watching it. I just can't watch animation that has both bad art and bad animation (where a lot of anime has terrible animation but good art).


    Quote Originally Posted by choptop2 View Post
    You'll never see rubber mutants kill street gangs in in live action, unless it's made by troma.
    Only reason I mentioned the suits is that to do the CG versions right, meaning hiring a studio that's going to do a good job, like Bay will, means millions more than suits, employing many more people for a longer period of time. All that money means the producers need it to appeal to a broader audience so that they're more likely to be paid back sooner, and so you have what they're going to make. A non-challenging PG-13 film with pretty actors and maybe some Steven Tyler on the soundtrack.

    It still cracks me up he's on the live action Yamato soundtrack from 2010.

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    Last edited by BurnetRhoades; 09-21-2013 at 05:15 PM.

  9. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by CountOrlok View Post
    I myself wouldn't mind seeing a hard R Ninja Turtles movie, but not done Nolan-style realistic.
    Oh yeah, I don't think you could go that serious, I only mean he took the source material seriously and made real films. He didn't lean against the crutch of, "well, it's a comic movie so how hard do I really need to try? It's a comic book," which happens all the time in horror too. You could go dark but with humor that doesn't wink knowingly at the camera.

    I would say something like Kick Ass is a good model for tone. It's ridiculous but the actors are all playing it straight. Then you have to hope that the actual film in between all the fight choreography and action set pieces is better than what we got with Kick Ass.

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  10. #150
    Rotting Zealot
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    Only reason I mentioned the suits is that to do the CG versions right, meaning hiring a studio that's going to do a good job, like Bay will, means millions more than suits, employing many more people for a longer period of time.
    Oh I get all that. You only invest what you expect to return. That's why I mentioned Troma, they usually only spend around 500K and make that back on the foriegn pre-sales. So that gives them a lot of freedom to fuck around.

    I remember reading Nickelodeon paid 60 million just for the rights to tmnt. So they're not gonna gamble with mature themes.

    I think for that to happen the turtles need to die. Since '88 they've never really laid dormant, there's always been some variation aimed at children. If they could go a solid decade with no new series or feature aimed at kids, and keep their faces off of fruit snacks and cereal boxes, maybe they could be brought back aimed at a more adult audiences.

    If they do make a more mature live action feature, let's all hope they get the Band back together!

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  11. #151
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    Jesus...$60M for TMNT rights.

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  12. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by ŔęĐ View Post
    Closest thing you'll probably get to anything involving the Comic Book Turtles was Turtles Forever in which they crossed over with the 80s Turtles and the 2003 darker themed cartoon Turtles.

    They basically shit all over the 80s Turtles and villains in that crossover but it was nice to see the 80s cartoon Turtles again for me anyway, and I really thought overall, it was one of the better crossovers done.
    That newer cartoon sucks (I only watched it while flicking through channels, though).. how dare they shit on a cartoon from the 80s.. geez. The 80s were the best time for cartoons, now they are boring as fuck.

    Quote Originally Posted by BurnetRhoades View Post

    I would say something like Kick Ass is a good model for tone. It's ridiculous but the actors are all playing it straight. Then you have to hope that the actual film in between all the fight choreography and action set pieces is better than what we got with Kick Ass.
    Kick Ass sucked ass... Something more like Sin City I was thinking about.

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  13. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by CountOrlok View Post
    That newer cartoon sucks (I only watched it while flicking through channels, though)..
    Neither have I.

    Quote Originally Posted by CountOrlok View Post
    how dare they shit on a cartoon from the 80s.. geez. The 80s were the best time for cartoons, now they are boring as fuck.
    Anime took over cartoons in the US over the last 15 years or so. I know a lot of people like anime, but I can't stand it personally. Fucking cheesy and overdone, even moreso than the older 80s/early 90s cartoons. To be fair, to each is own.

    I think they made the 80s Turtles even more cheesy than they originally were in the 80s cartoon (especially the first couple seasons) was to tell the newer audiences that they weren't like the 2003 Turtles and certainly not like the Mirage Turtles which come in later in that movie.

    Still, it was cool to see them again.

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  14. #154
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    The newer anime sucks, yeah, but I kind of liked the older anime like Dragonball Z and Sailor Moon.

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  15. #155
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    Michael Bay is a piece of shit. He buys up the work other people perfected and whores it off to closed minded fans who care more about trendy cgi bullshit rather than a good film. He ruined Nightmare, Friday, soon Halloween and now apparently the ninja turles. He may own Hollywood but I am not turning a blind eye to his crap he tries to pass off as decent cinema. I have heard supposedly he gets people involved and the threatens to ruin their careers if they don't see the project through. No way in hell I would give this greedy bitch a dime of my money.

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  16. #156
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    Congratulations, Frey, you just described Hollywood in a nutshell.

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  17. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by CountOrlok View Post
    Congratulations, Frey, you just described Hollywood in a nutshell.
    Mama always told me I would be good at something

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  18. #158
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    "Pizza dude's got 30 seconds."

    For whatever reason, that was my favorite line from a movie ever when i was a kid.

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  19. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by ŔęĐ View Post
    Anime took over cartoons in the US over the last 15 years or so. I know a lot of people like anime, but I can't stand it personally. Fucking cheesy and overdone, even moreso than the older 80s/early 90s cartoons. To be fair, to each is own.
    If you know anime by what you see on TV in America, you don't know anime. Saying anime sucks is like saying movies suck, or movies from a certain country suck. Anime imported for television and video here mostly sucks because the people doing the importing 1) import what they can afford, and are generally running on shoestring budgets, and 2) what they think the most people will watch.

    Animation, as an art form, is dead in America and has been for quite some time. It was pretty much dead by the 1980s with only a few theatrical studios and commercial work being done but television animation produced here is complete bullshit and 100% a writer's medium with no craft since the '80s if not the late 1970s.

    Japan and Canada are the only countries with longer form commercial animation practiced as a craft and it's been that way for a long time, with a few notable boutiques in parts of Europe.

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  20. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by CountOrlok View Post
    older anime like Dragonball Z and Sailor Moon.
    Seriously?

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