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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Macready View Post
    Actually it is replacing simple, practical effects such as blood splatter from gunshots. Now that's as simple as it gets.
    ...and totally sux. I know that sounds juvenile but lets be honest it does. For me the blood splatter from gunshots in movies such as DAWN OF THE DEAD look awesome. Up to a point I guess to a point it may be more practical to use CGI for this but in the end I would prefer seeing something crafted the good old fashioned way. Just feels a lot more care and effort is put in is all...like crafted or what have you.I don't know if any of this makes any sense but it is how I feel.

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  2. #42
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    It doesn't sound juvenile at all. Everything from old-school horror movies to action movies have always used practical effects for gunshots and the result is usually awesome but most of all realistic. CGI blood being used for this his horrible and detracts from the movie. Perhaps I am sounding petty but for me it truly does. Take the amazingly shitty Land of the Dead, I believe all of the gunshot wounds in that movie were CGI and looked terrible. Then Romero went on and used the same technique for Diary.

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  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Macready View Post
    Actually it is replacing simple, practical effects such as blood splatter from gunshots. Now that's as simple as it gets.
    Well squibs can fail on a take, and they are messy. There is a lot of clean up and set up time in between takes. Have to replace the wardrobe and clean up the actors and possibly the set each time you want to do the shot. That's Burning $$$$.

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    Last edited by choptop2; 12-18-2012 at 08:10 AM.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by choptop2 View Post
    Well squibs can fail on a take, and they are messy. There is a lot of clean up and set up time in between takes. Have to replace the wardrobe and clean up the actors and possibly the set each time you want to do the shot. That's Burning $$$$.
    Yup, I agree with all of that. But it was never an issue in the past and it was vastly used. You nailed it with the "Burning $$$$", which is a shame. As technology advances they won't even need to pay the actors all those millions anymore. Look what they did with Arnold in Terminator Salvation.

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  5. #45
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    Best squib scene ever.

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  6. #46
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    There is no way in hell CGI can duplicate just how awesome that is.

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  7. #47
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    CG blood is the worst. Blood splatter is not hard to do. Even if squibs can be a pain, they're a million times better.

    I love practical FX. It's a shame so many use CGI instead.

    Whenever I think of good special effects, I think of John Carpenter's The Thing (and not the awful fuckin prequel/reboot, which pretty much sums up what's wrong with FX these days).

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  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Macready View Post
    Yup, I agree with all of that. But it was never an issue in the past and it was vastly used. You nailed it with the "Burning $$$$", which is a shame. As technology advances they won't even need to pay the actors all those millions anymore. Look what they did with Arnold in Terminator Salvation.
    I am sure it has been a constant issue on several sets. How many takes and the $$ for a gag to work doesn't end up on screen.

    Filmmaking is about the bottom line, how much money is it going to cost? Personally I prefer practical blood FX because it adds a visceral elemenent. But I 100% understand why filmmakers would choose to go with digital fx. Especially when you're wearing the leash of a low buget and tight shooting schedule.

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  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Macready View Post
    There is no way in hell CGI can duplicate just how awesome that is.
    There isn't anything in there that couldn't be done. There isn't anything in there that couldn't be done to a level that you couldn't tell it was digital. It's only a question of time, preparation and the artist involved.

    There's also the question of whether it "should" be done. Can it be? Without a doubt.

    I could do it.

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  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by BurnetRhoades View Post
    There isn't anything in there that couldn't be done. There isn't anything in there that couldn't be done to a level that you couldn't tell it was digital. It's only a question of time, preparation and the artist involved.

    There's also the question of whether it "should" be done. Can it be? Without a doubt.

    I could do it.
    I haven't seen anything CGI that I can say looks as good as that. So I take it no artist that has done CGI in movies has been talented enough or put in the proper time as of yet?

    Not arguing, just asking. An example would be nice

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  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Macready View Post
    I haven't seen anything CGI that I can say looks as good as that.
    That's because the CGI was THAT good, you didn't notice it was CGI

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  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by choptop2 View Post
    Well squibs can fail on a take, and they are messy. There is a lot of clean up and set up time in between takes. Have to replace the wardrobe and clean up the actors and possibly the set each time you want to do the shot. That's Burning $$$$.
    This was what I was thinking, that CGI is used for this...saving money. But in stating this I still feel it does spoil things in the end.

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  13. #53
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    CGI saves times as well. I think the time frame on most big movies these days couldn't be done with all practical special effects. Having said that CGI will never be better than practical. And I don't normally say asshole things like this BUT if you think otherwise you are indeed an idiot.

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  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by strtfghtr View Post
    That's because the CGI was THAT good, you didn't notice it was CGI
    Yes.

    Examples of CG better than how a given effect could be done practically have already been posted to this list, and ignored, which generally happens. A specific effect like this one, matching a look that's already "approved" makes the challenge easier. I can see the elements that I would need to make to match it and each of those elements I'm versed in creating.

    Looking at this as one problem to solve is a fatal mistake, for those trying to accomplish it and for those assuming it can't be done. The overall perception of the event is the sum of several individual effects and if you can see that you can break it down into smaller, easier to do tasks.

    I would not be faster, nor would I be cheaper than doing the effect in-camera. The assumption stated here and held by a lot of people who don't know any better is pure ignorance. CGI is not faster or cheaper.

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    Last edited by BurnetRhoades; 12-18-2012 at 06:10 PM.

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Macready View Post
    Rob Bottin
    Mark Shostrom
    Kevin Yagher

    All underrated and at the same time some of the best ever for practical effects.
    No John Carl Buechler?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chief Falling Rock View Post
    CGI saves times as well.
    A lot of time, not to mention if something goes wrong they don't have to reset and start from scratch.


    I remember watching something on The Thing bluray and Bottin said he and his team were working for HOURS on the scene when they try to revive that bloke, and then they burn the body and the head detaches all in the one shot. Well because of all the chemicals in the glues and pussy shit, when they lit the fire the entire set near blew up. Hours and hours of work ruined in a second. They had to start all over again. Thank God it was worth it!

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  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by strtfghtr View Post
    Sin City, 300, Inception, Nolan's Batmans, etc. There's lots of good non-horror films that use CGI, though horror is tougher to find, films like Cabin in the woods, MBV3D, Trollhunter, Event horizon, and many others use it when necessary and still make the film enjoyable.
    Sin City and 300 were like comic books brought to life, so CGI backgrounds were perfect for them.

    Event Horizon was a good mix of practical and CGI..

    Quote Originally Posted by BurnetRhoades View Post
    Yes.

    Examples of CG better than how a given effect could be done practically have already been posted to this list, and ignored, which generally happens. A specific effect like this one, matching a look that's already "approved" makes the challenge easier. I can see the elements that I would need to make to match it and each of those elements I'm versed in creating.

    Looking at this as one problem to solve is a fatal mistake, for those trying to accomplish it and for those assuming it can't be done. The overall perception of the event is the sum of several individual effects and if you can see that you can break it down into smaller, easier to do tasks.

    I would not be faster, nor would I be cheaper than doing the effect in-camera. The assumption stated here and held by a lot of people who don't know any better is pure ignorance. CGI is not faster or cheaper.
    I have nothing against CGI in general.. it's just that I hate it when a practical effect looks better, yet they use CGI. I also hate how, they decide to show us everything now because they have the tools to do it, and nothing is left to the imagination anymore. All of the classic horror movies used the limitation of special effects to their best advantage, like showing the monster as little as possible, for example, and I miss that in movies. Now they have to show everything in excruciating detail and it's not that interesting anymore.

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  17. #57
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    If you're trying to make CGI really good aka photorealistic, it won't save time. I remember reading about Raimi approving CG shots in Spiderman 3. For any little tweak, they'd have to send it back, redo it, then he has to check it again... each time it takes quite a while and costs a lot of money.

    Sure, Norris transforming in The Thing took plenty of time too especially when the first take was screwed up and everything had to be reset ("It's on fire..." "Don't just stand there... put it out you idiot!" I love Bottin telling that story), but that's an absolutely unforgettable scene that really hasn't been topped since. Can anyone think of a CG scene (especially in a horror film) that comes close to being that memorable and groundbreaking? All I can think of is the T-Rex breaking through the fence in Jurassic Park, but again, that was an excellent combination of practical and CGI.

    There's no way you can do the ED-209 squib scene with CGI and make it as good especially if you didn't have the real practical shot as a reference.

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  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by CountOrlok View Post
    I have nothing against CGI in general.. it's just that I hate it when a practical effect looks better, yet they use CGI. I also hate how, they decide to show us everything now because they have the tools to do it, and nothing is left to the imagination anymore. All of the classic horror movies used the limitation of special effects to their best advantage, like showing the monster as little as possible, for example, and I miss that in movies. Now they have to show everything in excruciating detail and it's not that interesting anymore.
    Too true. I was watching the commentary on Dracula (1931) and the scene where he walks thought the spider web... Now we don't see him walk through it, just one shit, he is on one side of it. The next time he is on the other and the web is completely intact. The commentator said "Today, this would likely be done with him walking through it in one shot with the use of computer effect, but, just think how more impact it has this way".

    God fuck is it true.

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  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oxley View Post
    A lot of time, not to mention if something goes wrong they don't have to reset and start from scratch.


    I remember watching something on The Thing bluray and Bottin said he and his team were working for HOURS on the scene when they try to revive that bloke, and then they burn the body and the head detaches all in the one shot. Well because of all the chemicals in the glues and pussy shit, when they lit the fire the entire set near blew up. Hours and hours of work ruined in a second. They had to start all over again. Thank God it was worth it!
    HORSE SHIT. You people think because you're typing on a computer somehow you have some sort of understanding of CGI or what it takes to do it. You don't even know what you don't know.

    I worked nine man months in six calendar months to kill Senator Kelly for the first X-Men. Your talk of "hours" to pull something off amuses me greatly.

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  20. #60
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    CGI versus Practical fx

    Wait so your saying it takes basically the same ammount of time, And correct me if I am wrong but I believe you said it's more expensive... Yet 9 times out of 10 it looks worse then practical. So what exactly is the benefit of cgi?

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