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  1. #141
    HellBound Saint/Damnation Ready
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    ^We've discussed that a handful of times already you angry lil pommie foreigner

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  2. #142
    Rotting Zealot
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    BurnetRhoades's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coker View Post
    Yeah, but that's like criticizing a kettle for being black.
    See, I don't agree. Prior to Nolan taking up the Batman franchise, yes, people accepted the cop-out "oh, it's just a comic book movie," which was somehow supposed to excuse all manner of lazy filmmaking and storytelling (it's no less abominable a practice in horror), even though there was no excuse for this since Richard Donner had shown in the original Superman you could make a comic book movie and have it be a "real" movie. Burton contributed to lowering everyone's expectations IMO.

    If you had told me that there was any way to make Thor or Captain America not dependent on the crutch of "it's only a comic book movie" I'd have told you that you were high, prior to seeing them both. I had no intention of ever seeing Thor and had almost the same amount of interest in ever seeing a Kenneth Branaugh movie but I was, no hyperbole, shocked it wasn't something like The Fantastic Four (any version). Some people are just fine with "just a comic book movie" but, for me, Marvel had already set the bar very high for what was possible within that conceit, Hulk not withstanding, so I couldn't help but be disappointed here and felt like this was a bit more like what I was expecting from Joss Whedon when he made the Avengers, only to be surprised he was actually, finally, able to make a film that didn't feel like a big TV episode.

    Maybe you just had to be familiar with the source material to fully appreciate this film but, again, that's not a crutch that the other films have depended on, because I was only vaguely aware of anything in them, not being an avid (American) comic reader. For the most part I walked into almost every one of these Marvel films only interested in visual effects reference, like when I force myself to witness one of the Transformers films, only to be surprised that I actually have enjoyed several of them despite not giving a damn about the source material. This one I walked away mostly appreciating some of the visual effects and a few of the jokes but not really connecting to it enough to relate to the obscene amount of hype.


    Quote Originally Posted by hacknslash View Post
    Character development being first and foremost, then the acting,dialogue,pacing,script,
    You keep using these words. I do not think they mean what you think they mean

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    Last edited by BurnetRhoades; 12-31-2014 at 12:15 PM.

  3. #143
    the sage of absurd
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    Coker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BurnetRhoades View Post
    Much of it makes no sense at all, and that's fine, but several of the other Marvel movies were so surprising for taking absolutely ridiculous source material and making it somehow acceptable without wanting to laugh at the whole thing. If anything, it's one of the few that takes the stance of "this is a comic book" and uses that as a reason to not have to worry about all the things "real movies" have to be mindful of.
    I was referring to this when I made my kettle black comment.

    You are essentially criticizing the movie for succeeding in accomplishing what they set out to make. You say it's hard not to laugh at the entire movie.. well.. that's what Gunn and Perlman no doubt wanted. (You have seen Slither, right? Same style of humor). The comics, the movies.. all have a super self-depreciating style to the writing. You can dislike the movie.. but your criticism is kind of like someone saying, "Good god, that Locke movie was terrible! It only had one guy in it. ONE GUY. The entire time!"

    When in reality, that was the entire point of the film.

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  4. #144
    Rotting Zealot
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    BurnetRhoades's Avatar
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    Then I guess it was just unlucky (for me) that this followed better films as films. I didn't have to read or appreciate the source material of a single other Marvel film to appreciate the films. Though I had read a little bit of Spider-Man when I was a kid it neither made me like or dislike any of the Spider-Man films that have come out, I disliked them all because of Raimi's direction and never giving a fuck about Peter Parker, be it the writing or Macquire or whomever the new whiny kid is. I read a few Batman comics when I was a kid and then the Frank Miller opus when I was in high school and Miller definitely influenced my liking the Nolan films but none of the others had the benefit of me being at all familiar with their backstory or origins or style or anything else (besides this one Spider-Man + Punisher crossover issue and the first ever all-digital Iron Man comic, but I had zero investment and was never motivated to read further tales of their exploits).

    I compare movies to other movies. I mostly don't care about previous source material and definitely don't care if the source material negatively impacts a film's ability to be a good film as a standalone thing, dependent on no prior initiation (see: The Shining...I haven't read it but if King thinks the mini-series is better or scarier (or scary) then Kubrick's version is an improvement and King should STFU because he doesn't know dick about making good movies or adaptations of his own work). I guess they couldn't please everyone. I'm not mad about it, but to someone who isn't invested in the source material the film is one of the weakest Marvel films to date in every category but visually.

    Even the proliferation of blue people (or green), I was bugged the whole time because limitations in make up technology means these people looked simply dipped in paint the whole time, no better than a green woman banged by James T. back in the 1960s, not like beings with a different pigment in their skin. Because it wasn't pigment in their skin, it was covering up their skin. It was dead. It always reads as paint, not skin.

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    Last edited by BurnetRhoades; 01-01-2015 at 02:17 AM.

  5. #145
    Rotting Zealot
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    Quote Originally Posted by BurnetRhoades View Post
    I'm not mad about it, but to someone who isn't invested in the source material the film is one of the weakest Marvel films to date in every category but visually.
    Nah, visually it was a mess. Nothing that stood out at all.

    And yeah, blue paint.. so lame. Doctor Who has better looking aliens, and that's on a BBC budget. All we got was annoying Jar Jar Binks cgi characters and blue/green painted people. Super lame.

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  6. #146
    Rotting Zealot
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    BurnetRhoades's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CountOrlok View Post
    Nah, visually it was a mess. Nothing that stood out at all.
    I really liked Star Lord's ship and the space battle stuff. Believably photographic hard surface rendering is practically trivial now though, since everyone has switched to physically based rendering. Integration-wise and animation and technique-wise Rocket wasn't as good as if R+H had done him, may they rest in peace. His fur especially. Groot looked pretty good but I never really ever got that sensation of looking at something truly alive. He and Rocket were always animated characters and never really achieved that extra sense of reality that Golem achieved in moments or like Davy Jones sustains for full scenes.

    They were still really good though and it's unrealistic to expect companies other than Weta and ILM's absolute A-Teams to pull off total realism anymore.

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    Last edited by BurnetRhoades; 01-01-2015 at 06:48 PM.

  7. #147
    the sage of absurd
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    Coker's Avatar
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    So your critique is that GotG took a step backwards in terms of realism in comic book movie adaptations?

    I can respect that.

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  8. #148
    Rotting Zealot
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    BurnetRhoades's Avatar
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    I don't want to beat a dead horse or anything but I guess you could sum it up like that if you want. And I'll fully admit that maybe it's not fair to judge them all relative to each other. I was just so impressed by those that made me give a crap in spite of their origins in comic books. Truthfully, I've never really respected (American) comic books from a storytelling or writing standpoint, apart from The Dark Knight Returns, only for the art. Especially the superhero genre, I never had any interest in it. However, I can go browse for hours in a good comic store without ever having to actually read a single thing and get this amazing buzz (it's the only word that seems to be appropriate) from the visual input. It's like a form of pornography, if you will.

    I have a similar odd relationship with videogames. So many of them I have no interest in playing at all but I can watch other people play them if the art is good enough.

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    Last edited by BurnetRhoades; 01-02-2015 at 12:35 AM.

  9. #149
    the sage of absurd
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    I didn't mean for my comment to be a cutting off point. I respect your opinion and find you to consistently have a valid intellectual reasoning behind your posts. I just wanted to make sure that I understood where the critique was coming from so that we weren't debating different points and misunderstanding where each of us are coming from.

    I definitely see your point of view. I myself am just starting to read more modern comics from North America and am finding it hard to give myself reasons to finish even short installments.

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  10. #150
    Rotting Zealot
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    BurnetRhoades's Avatar
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    No worries. I do try to have some kind of reasoning for why I feel a certain way. And at least if I'm aware of something being irrational or having no basis that I can think of for an opinion I'll be honest about it. There are plenty of films that, if one were to peruse my video collection, I can't offer any reasonable explanation why they're there, other than I like them. And there is the occasional film that I simply won't like, and I couldn't say why. Usually I can, but not always. But if I can, I'm pretty stubborn about it and that can, I'm sure, be tiresome to others, lol.

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  11. #151
    Call me STRT or Street
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    Nah...the movie rocks

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    "Fools believe bullshit without evaluation. Fools believe bullshit without reason, because they like the story or they want to fit in. Fools believe bullshit that has no scientific basis, or in some cases, directly conflicts with scientific knowledge. But foolishness can be cured. We have all been fools at one time or another, and intelligent people learn from their foolish mistakes and try not to make them again." - Dave Silverman

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