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One more time with feeling...Originally Posted by TonyVato
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I think if you are willing to go so far to say that RZ doesn't write his characters as trashy just to deny that he has an obvious writing style, you're just being dishonest with me.
The Meyers Family is maybe the trashiest scene ever recorded to film. It makes Natural Born Killers seem like a Fraiser episode compared to the Meyers' house.
I'm basically done with this (10,000th) RZ discussion. The RZ Haters Club will go to any length to hate on RZ even denying that he has a style of film making despite in the next breath complaining about his style of film making.
RZ has a definitive writing style. He also has visual aesthetics that he leans on. He also repeatedly goes back to themes of isolation, being an outcast (whether from your family or society itself), and likes to bath his films in blood and macabre imagery. Not to mention his repeating cast.
RZ has a film making style.
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I keep seeing "Rob Zombie Haters", but how come no one is addressing that this man has earned this.
And we should go ahead and replace "Haters" with "Everyone here has seen multiple of his movies, know whats coming next and is not excited by it" for a bit better accuracy of what is happening.
STRT, lets take RZs best two movies, i dont know what they are for you (going to assume 1k and rejects), but what would you grade them on a fair scale? Like 6 of 10 right? With the majority of his movies being 3-5 of 10.
When these threads pop up, its most likely because of a new Rob Zombie movie is coming up. Those of us who have seen his work in the past and are unimpressed by it, aka, "the haters", vocalize this and say that the upcoming movie looks like the same nonsense and we mention why. These reasons, for some reason, are unacceptable to some and we are labeled as "blind haters", even though most of us have seen his entire library... it seems to me that there's a lack of "haters" and more "blind defenders" than anything else going on here.
So whats going to happen here?
This movie will be released, it will get like 4-5 of 10 on IMDB and RT. I will see it and know exactly what i was getting and be unimpressed.... this has been the trend for a decade now. And then in 2 more years hes going to announce another movie, it will pop up here, because he is not a very creative or good director and becasue hes proven himself rather incompetent time and time again, some of us will say "meh, looks shit" and the blind defenders will come out to call us "haters", even though his best work (which is not the majority of his work) is at best mediocre, basic and unimpressive.
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Never once in this thread did I say I think people should like his style. I simply said he has one...the fact that you know what to expect from a RZ movieThis movie will be released, it will get like 4-5 of 10 on IMDB and RT. I will see it and know exactly what i was getting and be unimpressed.... this has been the trend for a decade now.
shows he has a style, and you just don't like it.
Last edited by strtfghtr; 06-22-2018 at 08:30 AM.
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Its not about his style at this point, im simply saying that we do this song and dance every single time and every single time you guys label people as "Rob Zombie Haters", forgetting the fact that we are all basing this off knowing his movies. No one decided to dislike Rob Zombie for being Rob Zombie, in fact most of us probably loved either RZ or White Zombie, we all gave him multiple chances at being a good film maker and instead we got predictable, copied, nonsense. Will this be the movie that proves all of us wrong? Hey maybe. But given his history there is no real reason for us to think this.
And did i get your ratings right?
At best his best work is a 6-10 for you, someone defending him? Maybe 7 for 1k and/or Rejects... right? And the majority of his work is not his best work, its 2 or 3 points below that.
This is not some amazing film maker who has done some of the most interesting or best film work we've ever seen, where questioning why someone dislikes him would be..... a fair question. This is not QT or Martin or Hitchcock.
Last edited by El Ahrairah; 06-22-2018 at 08:57 AM.
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Oh I'm sorry I thought we were talking about styles over the last 2 or 3 pages...that's what I was talking about and you were claiming he had none and DM was claiming he doesnt even have a writing style. So we can cap that discussion off then? You agree that he does have a film making style that includes dialog? You can predict you won't like his movie because you are familiar with his film making style...that exists?
I'm busy at work today but I'll go into my thought on the other films later.
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I didnt say he didnt have a style, i said the things you were mentioning (lighting/filter/saturation) is not something one brings up when describing a directors style and if you were to start describing any other directors style, these are things you never even consider mentioning. Writing though, is and in his case, its a bad style.... not because of what it is, but because he cant seem to write any other type of character.
Last edited by El Ahrairah; 06-22-2018 at 09:14 AM.
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Based on this definition, I'd say RZ has a consistent style in his films - albeit one I don't care for. I am not excited for the new film, but I'll probably watch it down the road.
I can feel your blood
dripping on my skin
I can taste your flesh
All I need is death.
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We have slightly different takes on some of his movies LOL
I kinda/sorta liked HO1KC but as is the case with a lot of first-time filmmakers, I felt it was a little too busy and unfocused, like Zombie was more interested in visually name-dropping his favorite filmmakers than telling a strong, involving story. Kind of like how a beginning guitarist will go into a music store, strap on a guitar and start playing little bits and pieces of beginner riffs he's been practicing. You might hear a hint of ability, but it gets lost in the clutter. I'm not saying House didn't have its moments, though. The one that stands out most for me is Walt Goggins' death scene. I love how Zombie holds on that moment, lets it linger, milking the build-up for everything it's worth. It's a purely cinematic moment, completely of and about itself. I think it's the most honest moment in the whole movie for Zombie as a director.
The Devil's Rejects, IMO, was a huge step up. The direction and visual style was so much more focused, the storytelling more assured and confident, the characterizations more dimensional -- if I had never heard of Zombie before, I would have sworn it was his tenth movie, not only his second. For a filmmaker to improve that drastically, in the space of only two films -- I mean, that's practically unheard of. I can't think of a single other director who improved that much from his first film to his second. Well, maybe Tarantino, between Reservoir Dogs and Pulp Fiction, but then I'm not as big a fan of Dogs as most, so Pulp felt like a larger step up to me. But I digress...
I absolutely loathed Halloween 2. I liked the first half of his Halloween remake (the second half was essentially the original movie compressed to half its length, nothing new there) but I thought H2 was just a mean, nasty, spiteful movie with not a single character I gave a shit about. The only remotely sympathetic character for me was Brad Douriff as the Sheriff. I found myself wishing Michael would kill Laurie and put her out of her (and my) misery. The white horse hallucinations made no sense at all to me. I had trouble accepting Michael as a seven-foot-tall hobo being able to move from one side of town to the other without being noticed. I thought the idea of rotting the mask away and revealing too much of his face beneath was a huge mistake, as most of Michael's mystique is a direct result of not being able to see his face under the mask. And visually, I thought the movie was way too dark, murky and depressing. Like, oppressively so. That may have been Zombie's intention, but that didn't make it any more palatable to me. I just flat hated this movie.
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I don't understand how you can sit here and tell people to stop talking about things just because you don't want them to bring it up. You did it earlier when I brought up camera work and you told me I "can stop bringing it up". Then just now saying we should cap off the discussion.
It's a discussion. If you want to exit out of it, then do so. There have been great points in this thread though, but having someone come in here and just call people "rz haters" offers nothing to the discussion and shows that you don't really have much to bring to this discussion. We'll have a mini convo about other directors and you'll label it as "incoherent" or "nonsense". If you think rz has a style, then fantastic. I have offered my opinion on why I don't think he has one. It's a shame you can't accept others
Seems like your ego is a bit too precious for this.
And that's okay. I'm not sure, but I believe there is a slight age difference between you and I. I am not ashamed to admit that when Zombie made House of 1K Corpses, I was in a full blown hot topic junior high school phase. Rob Zombie's solo career helped me get into the heavier stuff I listen to today. His remix album, me hearing the Dragula remix on the Twisted Metal (2 or 3?) soundtrack. It's just a blast of nostalgia in my face. So, I have always been partial to his films.
Despite me not liking Rob Zombie's recent music or movies, I do have a level of respect for him. I'll still give all of his movies a chance. I keep an open mind through them and have positives and negatives to say about each. I'm not going to say everything he has done is crap, but certain people need to look at his movies like he does with his music.
Arguably his most famous solo work is his first album "Hellbilly Deluxe". That album from front to back is a nu metal classic. Every song on there is fucking awesome. Each one jams and has a distinct sound that separated it from the angsty nu metal that was being made back in the day. It had great horror elements to it to give him that certain style. This imagery came over from his White Zombie days. It had that old school 70s and 60s horror vibe. He brought the same level of talent to his sophomore album, "Sinister Urge". Then..he lost focus and completely started making a lot of garbage music. I think it's primarily due to his movie work keeping him busy.
The reason I bring all of this up is because he already tried capitalizing on past work. Hellbilly Deluxe was a huuuge success. So, what do you think he'd do to help sell future records? Well, make a Hellbilly Deluxe 2 of course! He even has the same cover for it, but instead of it being zombie'd out, it's just his face.
His albums leading up to Hellbilly 2 didn't get as much attention as his first. He knew he had to do something and that was to capitalize off his previous material. Instead of having classic songs like the first album, "Dragula", "Living Dead Girl", "Superbeast", "Demonoid Phenomenon" and "What Lurks on Channel X", you have songs like.."Sick Bubblegum", "What?", "Werewolf Baby!" and "Burn". The album was repetitive and super obvious that it was a last resort to be relevant in the mainstream metal world.
Now, I know music is subjective and it still sold copies, but claiming it as the sequel to your most popular album..how could it not sell well? I think he's doing the exact same thing here. That's why I raise an eyebrow to his decisions and that's why I'm veeerrry hesitant when it comes to 3 From Hell.
But, I'll still watch it and I'll still have positive and negative to say about that. If by giving him all these chances makes me a "rz hater" (like the kids say nowadays) then so be it.
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A bit of an age difference, yeah. I was in my early 20s the first time I heard White Zombie (a buddy in the Army played me their 1987 album Soul-Crusher back around '91 or so) and was in my early 30s when House came out. Currently I have all four White Zombie albums (my favorite being La Sexorcisto -- I cite the track Black Sunshine as the song that made me want to play bass, and I regularly jam along to that album) and while I've heard all his solo albums, I only own two of them (Hellbilly Deluxe and Educated Horses).
I'm open-minded about him sequelizing TDR. True, it could be seen as him going back to a previous success, but this is yet another case in which he wouldn't be the first director to do so (Raimi, Romero, Carpenter, Craven, Cunningham, and on and on and on...). I don't think for a second that 3 From Hell will be the massive improvement over TDR that I thought TDR was over House, but his Firefly films, unlike his Halloween movies, aren't works-for-hire. These are characters and scenarios he's spent years with, is fully invested in and knows inside and out, because he created them. I'm sure he realizes he has his work cut out for him following up TDR, not to mention that he has some making up to do for the abject failure (IMO) that was 31. As with anything, I'm cautiously optimistic.
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Ok ease up there. First I never tried to tell anyone to stop discussing...let's go back to the tape.I don't understand how you can sit here and tell people to stop talking about things just because you don't want them to bring it up. You did it earlier when I brought up camera work and you told me I "can stop bringing it up". Then just now saying we should cap off the discussion.
It's a discussion. If you want to exit out of it, then do so. There have been great points in this thread though, but having someone come in here and just call people "rz haters" offers nothing to the discussion and shows that you don't really have much to bring to this discussion. We'll have a mini convo about other directors and you'll label it as "incoherent" or "nonsense". If you think rz has a style, then fantastic. I have offered my opinion on why I don't think he has one. It's a shame you can't accept others
Seems like your ego is a bit too precious for this.
First I said this:
Then El replied with this:
That really surprised me, because if it's not about his style at this point that tells me El wants to move on so I asked for clarification and if he wants to end the style discussion since he already agreed with me that RZ has a writing style if he would include a film making style along with it with this:
To which El responded with this:
Seems slightly odd that he would go back and forth with me for quite a bit arguing against RZ having an actual style but he was merely pointing out that he didn't like my examples. Ok fair enough but we (El and I) have come to an agreement of sorts that RZ has a film making style, despite whether it's good or bad (something El wants to move into now I assume with his talk of how I liked the previous movies).
Now that I've explained that let me get to why I thought your comment was borderline incoherent.
Summing your quote up:Those directors you mentioned don't just have one style they stick with. Tarantino has the 70s feel in almost all of his films. Combine that with his expertly written dialogue, his camera techniques and the level of talent he gets in each film, I would consider that a certain style. It's not just present in a couple of his films, it's present in all of his films. Scorcese, Woo, Raimi, everyone you mentioned has a distinct style they almost always stick to.
Statement 1: the directors i mentioned have multiple styles.
Statement 2: Tarantino has only one style.
Statement 3: multiple other directors have one style.
Those second two ideas do not support the first. I didn't really understand what you were getting at.
Now as for not wanting to discuss RZ's camera work any further...that's because I already AGREED with you. Do you want to argue about things we agree on? That doesn't make sense. I agree RZ's camera techniques vary from film to film. They are inconsistent. I think he's actually improved in this aspect but again, as I mentioned before I wasn't a fan of adding back some of the "music video" shots in Lords. I've relinquished the point that they don't really add to his style I was arguing for.
I mostly use that term because it seems to get under your skin, others wear it as a badge of honor. Hell, people in this very forum have proclaimed themselves as such.
Now that all of that is out of the way, we can still get back to the previous "style" discussion if you want if not that's fine I wouldn't want to tell you what you can and cannot discuss. In all honesty I'm a little worn out on it and as I've said before, refusing to admit that RZ has a distinctive writing and dialog style seems to me slightly dishonest. I'll never be able to convince you of something more nuanced like lighting or set aesthetics if you refuse to recognize something so glaringly obvious. RZ's characters do not speak like everyone else in the real world, his characters live in some alternate reality where pretty much everyone is foul mouthed and trashy. Much like Tarantino has a way of writing his characters, so does RZ. (though I and most people I assume MUCH prefer Tarantino's unique style to the guttural filth of Zombie...but that's what you expect from his movies right?)
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lol I wasn't arguing with it the second time I brought it up. I was using it to further the discussion. I didn't keep jabbing it into an argument at all. I found it silly that you told me to stop bringing it up when I was just using it to make a point
I see where you are coming from, I really do, but I just don't see it. You can call it dishonest all you want, your approval doesn't mean anything to me, but I just feel that lack of writing talent should be considered a style. You look at it as Rob Zombie making these characters foul mouthed on purpose. I see it as a way to get around having a good script. I legitimately think he can't write to save his life. That's why his music generally repeats itself lyrically and his films put "fuck", "shit" and "shit fuck" in random sentences. Because he can't write to save his life. Then your average movie goer says, "Man, that Zombie style is awesome!".
As I said, you have your way of thinking, I have mine. No one really knows the truth besides Zombie himself. I just don't consider lack of talent a style. If that were the case, Uwe Boll would be praised for using shitty editing in his films. It's his style, no?
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Apparently RZ has officially completed editing on 3 from Hell
https://wegotthiscovered.com/movies/...1cT3ChpZWat4qQ
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GORY PUMPKIN WEBSITE
"Ignorance must die if creation is to survive.."-Dillon Mason (Hacksaw: Documentary of a Psycho Killer)
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I'm not expecting much from RZ and his horror flicks. His idea of horror to me is just laughable. His movies are nearly all the same with their overuse of nudity and vulgar language, as he recycles the same people over and over to play in his movies.
Dr. Sam Loomis: I prayed that he would burn in hell. But in my heart, I knew that hell would not have him.
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Well this is officially rated R. How that is a surprise is beyond me.
How about make a newsworthy article when RZ makes at least a halfway competent film that doesn't suck?
https://www.joblo.com/horror-movies/...ic-nudity-more
The tranquility of night hides many malevolent things taking place under a stunning, mysterious sky pocked with precious gems of light. -GP
Published writer in Fantastic Horror, Volumes 1,2, and 5. Currently working on my first two novels!
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I can feel your blood
dripping on my skin
I can taste your flesh
All I need is death.
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Very MEH teaser.
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Are you surprised?
The tranquility of night hides many malevolent things taking place under a stunning, mysterious sky pocked with precious gems of light. -GP
Published writer in Fantastic Horror, Volumes 1,2, and 5. Currently working on my first two novels!
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