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  1. #761
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    Quote Originally Posted by m0nd0 View Post
    Yesterday I watched Lenzi's Seven Bloodstained Orchids
    a fine flick
    A favourite of mine; Lenzi made some really fine gialli.

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    The giallo may very well be my favorite sub-genre in all film. Whether they're on the more violent and exploitative side or the crime thriller with very little blood the genre is captivating. For a few years it seemed everyone in Italy was obsessed with making a movie with a story and a crazy reveal.

    Without spoiling anything what giallo does everyone think has the best/most ridiculous motive? I'd say Watch Me When I Kill is up there despite being merely a decent movie.

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  3. #763
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    Quote Originally Posted by sethdlh View Post

    Without spoiling anything what giallo does everyone think has the best/most ridiculous motive? I'd say Watch Me When I Kill is up there despite being merely a decent movie.
    I haven't seen too many Giallo's but the plot of Bay of Blood really struck me. Not often you see a slasher based around a property dispute.

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  4. #764
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    Quote Originally Posted by sethdlh View Post
    Without spoiling anything what giallo does everyone think has the best/most ridiculous motive? I'd say Watch Me When I Kill is up there despite being merely a decent movie.
    Whilst possibly not the best or most ridiculous, the killer reveal in Seven Deaths in the Cat's Eye was a bit unexpected. Mainly because the film itself is such a mish-mash of sub-plots, and often comes across as giallo meets gothic Hammer, that the final reveal comes as a bit of a surprise (and a bit anti-climactic) and you're left guessing about other aspects of the film.

    That's not to say it isn't an enjoyable film; plus it has a giant ape in it too.

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    I recently re-watched Lucio Fulci's 'Murder to the Tune of the Seven Black Notes' (1979). Only the second time I've seen it. Watching this makes me think more how much better he was directing films in this genre than he was making outright horror. Well, except of course the dreadful 'The New York Ripper’, which was just a cash-in on the American slasher craze of the early 80s. With the exception of COTLD and 'The Beyond', Fulci was an overrated hack when it came to his supernatural/zombie gore horror and his delusional butthurt fanboys need to get over it. He had his greatest directorial moments with his first four giallo movies.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveJ.W View Post
    I recently re-watched Lucio Fulci's 'Murder to the Tune of the Seven Black Notes' (1979). Only the second time I've seen it. Watching this makes me think more how much better he was directing films in this genre than he was making outright horror. Well, except of course the dreadful 'The New York Ripper’, which was just a cash-in on the American slasher craze of the early 80s. With the exception of COTLD and 'The Beyond', Fulci was an overrated hack when it came to his supernatural/zombie gore horror and his delusional butthurt fanboys need to get over it. He had his greatest directorial moments with his first four giallo movies.
    Amen. The man could make a truly fantastic film but around the mid 80s it seems like he just stopped caring and started producing shit. He made some fantastic horror and giallo and even a really damn fine crime film but he really did make some trash that gets talked about (and some I even own) for their gore and silliness (killer snails deserve a place on my shelf even if the movie blows chunks)

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  7. #767
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    Blood and black lace is my favorite!

    A film I recommend to any giallo fan is a Hong Kong film called "Si yiu" (1981) AKA "corpse mania" directed by Chih-Hung Kuei, I guarantee that any giallo fan will like this

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  8. #768
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    Quote Originally Posted by klownz View Post
    A film I recommend to any giallo fan is a Hong Kong film called "Si yiu" (1981) AKA "corpse mania" directed by Chih-Hung Kuei, I guarantee that any giallo fan will like this
    Agreed; highly enjoyable. It's a Shaw Bros. film too, so you just know that it's going to a bit barmy...

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  9. #769
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    Quote Originally Posted by klownz View Post
    Blood and black lace is my favorite!
    I only saw that for the first time last month and loved it. That and Torso.

    As for Fulci, I don't see him as a hack. COTLD, The Beyond, Zombi and HBTC have incredible atmosphere. As a film maker that's his strong point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shanebotwin View Post
    I only saw that for the first time last month and loved it. That and Torso.

    As for Fulci, I don't see him as a hack. COTLD, The Beyond, Zombi and HBTC have incredible atmosphere. As a film maker that's his strong point.

    Lucio Fulci found horror as a marketable niche and exploited it delivering geek shows for the gorehounds. He simply just did not understand horror cinema in the traditional sense. He could envision strong imagery and create memorable set-pieces but that was it. There was never much in between. He didn't know how to pace, build suspense, make genuine frights and tell a story. Nothing was scary at all about his films he just knew how to repulse.

    COTLD and 'The Beyond' work so well because of the narratives employed that strive purely to string together their gore sequences all encapsulated in an irresistible atmosphere. Fabio Frizzi's musical scores contributed to this greatly. This was all he was good at but Mario Bava and Dario Argento excelled at it, as they understood pace, suspense, induce genuine fear from their audiences and knew how to tell a good story so you actually gave a shit about what was going on.

    Fulci was a horror hack. 'Zombie' is vastly overrated not worthy of its reputation as it’s just a dreary Italian rip-off of a truly great movie and HBTC is at best mediocre. When he would actually attempt to try to tell a story, it would just turn out to be a jumbled mess. Everything after that was just fucking abysmal. It's strange how his giallo films a genre that was a key innovator in influencing the slasher sub-genre of the horror movie were well paced, had shitloads of suspense and were all good stories that not all this transcended to his horror work. It’s insulting that Lucio Fulci is mentioned in the same breath as Bava and Argento who are true Italian masters.

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  11. #771
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveJ.W View Post
    Lucio Fulci found horror as a marketable niche and exploited it delivering geek shows for the gorehounds. He simply just did not understand horror cinema in the traditional sense. He could envision strong imagery and create memorable set-pieces but that was it. There was never much in between. He didn't know how to pace, build suspense, make genuine frights and tell a story. Nothing was scary at all about his films he just knew how to repulse.

    COTLD and 'The Beyond' work so well because of the narratives employed that strive purely to string together their gore sequences all encapsulated in an irresistible atmosphere. Fabio Frizzi's musical scores contributed to this greatly. This was all he was good at but Mario Bava and Dario Argento excelled at it, as they understood pace, suspense, induce genuine fear from their audiences and knew how to tell a good story so you actually gave a shit about what was going on.
    Dude, this is why you are one of my absolute favorite horror reviewers. I could not agree more with these statements, though I wouldn't go so far as to call Fulci a "hack" he just wasn't on the same level as Bava and Argento.

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    Quote Originally Posted by strtfghtr View Post
    Dude, this is why you are one of my absolute favorite horror reviewers. I could not agree more with these statements, though I wouldn't go so far as to call Fulci a "hack" he just wasn't on the same level as Bava and Argento.
    Thank you!

    Obviously, I don't know if you've seen any of the awful films that he made after HBTC but they are some of the very worst horror movies that I've ever seen and there were a lot of them. He just stopped caring and turned up on set for a paycheck. Even his most famous work 'Zombie' is way overrated. I just cannot understand why horror fans rate him so highly. I think he qualifies as a hack. Well, as a horror filmmaker anyway.

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  13. #773
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveJ.W View Post
    Lucio Fulci found horror as a marketable niche and exploited it delivering geek shows for the gorehounds. He simply just did not understand horror cinema in the traditional sense. He could envision strong imagery and create memorable set-pieces but that was it. There was never much in between. He didn't know how to pace, build suspense, make genuine frights and tell a story. Nothing was scary at all about his films he just knew how to repulse.

    COTLD and 'The Beyond' work so well because of the narratives employed that strive purely to string together their gore sequences all encapsulated in an irresistible atmosphere. Fabio Frizzi's musical scores contributed to this greatly. This was all he was good at but Mario Bava and Dario Argento excelled at it, as they understood pace, suspense, induce genuine fear from their audiences and knew how to tell a good story so you actually gave a shit about what was going on.

    Fulci was a horror hack. 'Zombie' is vastly overrated not worthy of its reputation as it’s just a dreary Italian rip-off of a truly great movie and HBTC is at best mediocre. When he would actually attempt to try to tell a story, it would just turn out to be a jumbled mess. Everything after that was just fucking abysmal. It's strange how his giallo films a genre that was a key innovator in influencing the slasher sub-genre of the horror movie were well paced, had shitloads of suspense and were all good stories that not all this transcended to his horror work. It’s insulting that Lucio Fulci is mentioned in the same breath as Bava and Argento who are true Italian masters.
    I think the word "hack" is thrown around way too loosely. Sam Bayer and countless other music video come horror movie directors are hacks. Fulci is nowhere near the level of Argento and Bava, but then not many directors are. Considering the dozens of directors who have worked in the genre in the past twenty to thirty years there's only a handful who I would grant master status. Argento and Bava for sure, throw in Carpenter, Cronenberg, Romero and Craven and there really aren't many others.

    I agree with you that Fucli had no idea on how to construct a story or create tension or build suspense. Coherent plotting and logic are thrown out the window in all of his films, yet the man excelled at creating atmosphere and producing horrifying imagery.. I love the fly blown, dirty, sweaty diseased feel of Zombi and the grimy catacombs of COTLD. We're talking horror here, where there's dozens upon dozens of films with the flimsiest of plots yet pile on huge body counts and gore. The slasher genre for example is renowned for it.

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    I would agree on calling Fulci a hack. His films are so awful I can barely sit through them these days.
    Quote Originally Posted by shanebotwin View Post
    I think the word "hack" is thrown around way too loosely. Sam Bayer and countless other music video come horror movie directors are hacks. Fulci is nowhere near the level of Argento and Bava, but then not many directors are. Considering the dozens of directors who have worked in the genre in the past twenty to thirty years there's only a handful who I would grant master status. Argento and Bava for sure, throw in Carpenter, Cronenberg, Romero and Craven and there really aren't many others.

    I agree with you that Fucli had no idea on how to construct a story or create tension or build suspense. Coherent plotting and logic are thrown out the window in all of his films, yet the man excelled at creating atmosphere and producing horrifying imagery.. I love the fly blown, dirty, sweaty diseased feel of Zombi and the grimy catacombs of COTLD. We're talking horror here, where there's dozens upon dozens of films with the flimsiest of plots yet pile on huge body counts and gore. The slasher genre for example is renowned for it.
    I'm not a fan of those kinds of horror movies. It's so easy to put together some fake-looking gore.
    And I don't think the issue with Fulci is just plot. I don't go into a horror movie expecting an amazing plot. I find his films to be amateurish, and just lazy. I love how some Fulci fans notice ONLY the gore. I'm not necessarily saying that's you, I just don't find ANY redeeming qualities in Fulci films.
    And BTW, I have never noticed atmosphere in his films. But I realize that's just me.

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  15. #775
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edo View Post
    I would agree on calling Fulci a hack. His films are so awful I can barely sit through them these days.

    I'm not a fan of those kinds of horror movies. It's so easy to put together some fake-looking gore.
    And I don't think the issue with Fulci is just plot. I don't go into a horror movie expecting an amazing plot. I find his films to be amateurish, and just lazy. I love how some Fulci fans notice ONLY the gore. I'm not necessarily saying that's you, I just don't find ANY redeeming qualities in Fulci films.
    And BTW, I have never noticed atmosphere in his films. But I realize that's just me.
    I've only seen the four major horror films he's done and I enjoy them. I don't love them but I don't regard them as awful movies. The gore is secondary for me. It's the atmosphere that draws me in, and the soundtracks he uses compliments the mood perfectly. For example the main theme for Zombi goes hand in hand with the imagery on screen and it works for me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shanebotwin View Post
    Coherent plotting and logic are thrown out the window in all of his films, yet the man excelled at creating atmosphere and producing horrifying imagery.. I love the fly blown, dirty, sweaty diseased feel of Zombi and the grimy catacombs of COTLD.
    I wrote a piece on COTLD. It's definitely my favourite horror film of his after 'The Beyond’, which is his horror masterwork and deserves all the praise it gets.

    Quote Originally Posted by shanebotwin View Post
    I've only seen the four major horror films he's done and I enjoy them. I don't love them but I don't regard them as awful movies. The gore is secondary for me. It's the atmosphere that draws me in, and the soundtracks he uses compliments the mood perfectly. For example the main theme for Zombi goes hand in hand with the imagery on screen and it works for me.
    Fabio Frizzi is one of the best things about his horror movies. When you can get around to it go watch his stuff after HBTC and you will see why I call him a "hack". I'm not talking about the odious TNYR as that harked back to his giallo work, although that pales in comparison to those four films. For some strange reason, Fulci fanboys love 'A Cat in the Brain'. It’s one of the worst horror movies I've ever seen! The rest of his filmography after HBTC is even worse and that's really saying something. You should try to check out his earlier gialli films - 'A Lizard in a Woman Skin', 'Don't Torture a Duckling' (his best film IMO), 'Murder to the Tune of the Seven Black Notes' and 'Perversion Story'. All are great movies and you will see how much better a director he was then.

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  17. #777
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveJ.W View Post
    I wrote a piece on COTLD. It's definitely my favourite horror film of his after 'The Beyond’, which is his horror masterwork and deserves all the praise it gets.



    Fabio Frizzi is one of the best things about his horror movies. When you can get around to it go watch his stuff after HBTC and you will see why I call him a "hack". I'm not talking about the odious TNYR as that harked back to his giallo work, although that pales in comparison to those four films. For some strange reason, Fulci fanboys love 'A Cat in the Brain'. It’s one of the worst horror movies I've ever seen! The rest of his filmography after HBTC is even worse and that's really saying something. You should try to check out his earlier gialli films - 'A Lizard in a Woman Skin', 'Don't Torture a Duckling' (his best film IMO), 'Murder to the Tune of the Seven Black Notes' and 'Perversion Story'. All are great movies and you will see how much better a director he was then.
    I'll have to seek those earier films out. I didn't really think much of New York Ripper. It's a pretty sleazy and redundant piece of work. I've heard of Don't torture A Duckling, I think that one is on youtube. At least I know what movies of his to avoid.

    I really need to see more of Bavas work as well.

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    I think Fulci made too many excellent movie to be considered a hack. He certainly got lazy and stopped caring but Don't Torture A Duckling is proof enough that he wasn't a hack. He made plenty of shit though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sethdlh View Post
    I think Fulci made too many excellent movie to be considered a hack. He certainly got lazy and stopped caring but Don't Torture A Duckling is proof enough that he wasn't a hack. He made plenty of shit though.
    I'm talking about how he was a hack for the most part of his horror career. With the exception of COLTD and 'The Beyond', his films ranged from overrated mediocrity to the just downright terrible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveJ.W View Post
    I'm talking about how he was a hack for the most part of his horror career. With the exception of COLTD and 'The Beyond', his films ranged from overrated mediocrity to the just downright terrible.
    Fair enough. He probably put out more crap than quality but there is a good bit of quality.

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